New Condor owner (fairly stupid)
Been visiting this site for a very short time and thought I should become a member.
I shoot centerfire and rimfire regularly, formerly a competitor. Been reloading for 30+ years.
Until recently my greatest air gun has been a 40 year old Benjamin Silver Streak .20. I sent it to Mac1 to flatten out the trajectory a little.
I recently purchased a Condor in .177, and also purchased .20 and .22 barrels. I also have a tank set up for 177 and another for 20/22.
I have been weighing pellets in search of the best possible accuracy. At 35 yards I am getting groups averaging around .400 using a smattering of different pellets. My goal is to set the .177 barrel up using the Eun Jin heavy pellets, (15 grains?). Seems like a match made in heaven. Its proving to be quite a challenge at the moment, the heavy pellets seem to be causing air dumps. I assume that has to do with the heavy pellet creating excessive back pressure, not allowing the top hat to properly close. I am sure there is a fix for it. I have been reading other post to see if anyone else has experienced this problem, but probably have not looked deep enough yet.
I figured I would register because it was reading this forum that convinced me to make the purchase, and I am really glad I did.
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Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
Savage,
I studied both carefully and really didn’t see any markings that would distinguish one from the other except for the sticker that the bottles come with.
I know I have not made a mistake because I have yet to unpack the 22 bottle.
I etched 177 into the paint on my 177 bottle. Will etch 22 into the other bottle once I switch calibers.
This is what they told me, too. I did not want to send my tank back to them. I then read a few posts about tank dumps and decided to pull my valve and tighten the nut 1/2 turn. It solved my problem.
Welcome to the madness E.R. Hey how do you know one tank (.177) from the other (.20/.22) ??? Is there a stamp or some other indicator to tell you which is which? T.I.A.
The luck of EyeRelief reigns on. Called AF today, and all of the technicians are at the shot show. The person I did talk to ask for the tank back as soon as possible. HMMMM. I am sure that it is just maladjusted and hope they will have it back to me pronto. I will probably wish I had adjusted it myself before it is all said and done.
I found that some loose pellets seem to tighten if I seated them deeper with the pointy end of a Beeman Pellseat tool. Wok pointed out that the deeper you seat the pellet the slower the FPS. He was right as usual.
Let us know what AF says about the tank dump.
Tonight I used my lathe to turn down some aluminum round stock to make a pellet seating tool. It put the pellets 1/32″ further into the barrel than flush. Hand pumped my bottle to 2600 psi. Fired a Premier 8gr pellet through with no issue. Loaded a 15 gr Eun Jin in and fired, air dump. These are not complete dumps, I went back and checked this evening and it appears that I have around 1000 – 1200 psi remaining in the tank. Must have been around the same amount last dump because following the air dump, I fired an 8 gr pellet through at 1046 fps per my combro – 1039 fps shooting chrony.
I think I can eliminate pellet seating. Will check with air Force in the morning and see what words of wisdom they can impart.
Just use a coin to push the Eun Jins flush like Wok said.
Everything makes sence once you go over it a few times.
The tank dump is just one of the most aggravating problems because of the hand pumping it causes.
Go slow with that AF PUMP ❗
Hopefully that pumpl is in warranty. I went through 3 in a few months and finally bought a Hill Pump. Hill costs more but doesn’t spend so much time in transit for replacement with someone elses repaired pump. Get your name on the waiting list at ShoeBox for a motorized pump. It may take months but will be worth it. No deposit required. I held out for a year because the pumping gives this old retiree a way to control blood pressure.
Fishing_rod had to take his tank and valve apart to adjust it to stop tank dump. Some just give up on heavies until they get a SCUBA or SCBA tank, or maybe a ShoeBox compressor.
I think you should be able to see or measure a larger ID (inner diameter) of the valves. The larger for .22 caliber.
Here’s a photo of an original and my polished valve stem/Top Hat:
Keep is informed of your progress. It helps all of us.
(edited to correct numerous errors as iPhone seems to have different ideas and goes beyond auto correct to change words to something totally out of place. When I don’t time to reread what I type, it gets imbarrasing at times)
Thanks for the information. A lot of this sounds greek to me, I will need to do some studying. I am not totally familiar with all of this nomenclature.
The only time I have experienced air dumps is with the heavy Eun Jin pellets. Last night I fired around 30 crossman premiers with no problem, then 1 Eun Jin triggered massive flatulence. I did purchase separate bottles, one for 177 and one for 20/22. I am sure I am using the correct one for 177. The Eun Jin pellets do fit tight in the barrel. I do push the pellets into the barrel as far as I can with my finger, but can see a tiny bit of the pellet skirt at the edge of the barrel. Is it a good Idea to make a small tool to force them up into the barrel say 1/16th 1/8th inch or so?
Is it possible that the heavy pellets are creating excessive pressure to push them down the barrel and that is holding the top hat open, or is this my simple mind leading me down a useless path. From you folks responses, my problem does not seem to be a common one. I am more than ready to admit operator error.
Since I am hand pumping this gun with an Air Force pump, I really would like to get this part of the problem fixed before all this exercise turns me into Lou Ferrigno.
Thank you all for your input, now back to the Air Force hand pump and the quest for 3000 psi.
It’s not easy to take the valve out of the tank, especial the first time. You’ll need a tool like Marmor Militia sells, very reasonable prices and a great fellow.
In the meantime maybe an o-ring added behind the Top Hat would help. Powderburner has posted a lot about using the o-ring to increase # of shots and accuracy. It may improve the stem seal also. If it helps you may find the need to adjust the Top Hat out a little to regain FPS.
I don’t know about the Talon valve stem but the Condor valve stem can easily be pryed forward out of the brass valve guide. If adjusting the Top Hat, be aware that the valve stem is thin and can be dented by the Top Hat grub screws. Walkonking posted about using a drill bit in the stem to prevent denting.
While you have the valve stem out, polish it and the Top Hat. Keep the breech o-rings lubed with divers silicone.
BTW :tag:
Give Airforce a call.
There is a different valve spring for .177 and .22
Make sure you have the correct one.
Also make sure you are seating those pellets completely flush and tight in the barrel
My rifle was dumping the tank every now and then, to fix it : I took the valve out of the bottle and tightened the spring tension nut 1/2 turn.
Welcome to TAG!
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Fishin
I drained the tank and decided to take a look inside. I pulled the top hat out. The opposite side of my top hat has a plastic part on it that I did not recognize from any of the other posts so I thought it best I just send it back this time. Hopefully they wont punish me heavily by keeping it for a long time.
I am very interested in learning more about what appears to be one of the more critical parts of this gun. Any direction would be most appreciated.