heavy hammer too much for stock talon tank
I did a search but couldnt find what I was looking for. Hoping Y’all could help.
I have a condor with some mods including I think It was a Tim H heavy hammer. Not sure of the weight right now as it has been so long since I put it in.
Question. I just got a used talon tank. If I turn my preload screw down as far as it will go will I damage the stock talon valve or completely compress it or anything? i.e., will the heavy hammer be too much for the stock talon valvel to handle?
2. what is the stock talon hammer weight? If above is yes. then I was thinking I could take my stock condor hammer and either cut it down shorter or turn it to lighten it up. Think this will work?
should I just shoot it at zero preload and see what happens?
Ideas?
Thanks for your input.
wade
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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
BB, you smart ass… :twak:
Not at all I was serious. I thought maybe some where thinking the tanks themselves were different!!!! 😆
I bought the condor yrs ago and went up the ladder in power and mods.
found the ballance of power and accuracy and widened my sweet spot with a larger tank.
Now I am headed back down the ladder to slower and quieter. I know opposite direction most folks take.
the tank ping and encroaching neighbors (stealth) and a deal on a talon tank started me down the mod road again.
this whole thing started when I wanted to get rid of some tank ping on the larger thinner tank… and blew up from there. Now I’m thinking on making this gun a quiet slower ss and building up another gun for power and range.
All in the fun of building, modding and messing around.
Cant find my darn stock hammer tho. hope I didnt trade it off or loose it.
later
wade
The only time I did anything to a air rifle is with the Airarcher kit. I ordered a Frame from Air Force, and had a high flow valve I got with a Talon SS buy on here.
First thing I noticed was the valve was too hard to push in, Upon calling a friend of mine he said the spring probably was too heavy.
So using a scale I took the valve off of my High flow condor tank that I bought new and pushed it down and checked the Weight.
Then I push the Hi Flow valve I got with the SS and it was almost 3 times as hard to push,meaning, someone tinkered with the valve or The Manufacturer put the wrong spring in the CO’2 valve.”High Flow” SO I received a stock Condor spring and it was exactly the same weight as the New Condor spring to the ounce and pressure, so I set the top Hat like the one I bought new::Never been modded:: and I out it on my Toln 177 caliber, and shot a Light weight gold Pellet in it and it hit 1600+ FPS”Raptor pellet” So It was loud and I put the Tolon Tunes shroud on it, and holly smoke it shot the internal workings out of the shroud, and the Metal front went through my Crono at 980FPS and I ain’t found it yet. I live in Wv. But if anyone See’s a front peace of a TT shroud in their front yard in Texas it just might be mine J/K 😀 Any way I told Tony of my unforgivable Ignorance, and He Offered a little help for which I am grateful.
That is the only mod I ever done to any Air rifle other than opened the High flow Marau Valve according to instructions.
But back to the spring, the only difference that I am told of the Condor and the Talon is the Hammer weight and it is done with a striker weight that is on the air force air guns web site, You cal also call them and they can help you with the spring.
Stay away from personal Mods unless you know what your doing(I DON”T) 😀
But my Guns shoot as good or better in some circumstances than modded rifles Ive seen on YouTube.
The only Mods that Ive personally saw myself that work is the Talon Tunes Modes on the Air Force rifle. Tony does a hell of a Job.
But the rest shoot the best night out of the Box.
Some mods give more shots and less speed, and some intended for speed, don’t give the speed I get from an unaltered Gun, The Discovery shoots best out of the Box, at least mines does. I hope this helps. Good luck.
BB, you smart ass… :twak:
Yes, your right, I mean the valves… 😉
Thanks Benne, wasn’t quite awake at that point. 😆
The tanks are the same between models except for the edge. The valves are diff.
Also, wouldn’t a higher start pressure yielding a higher extreme spread indicate not enough hammer weight/preload????
that is what I would have thought also. However –
I failed to mention. I didnt get any bell curve out of any of the strings I shot like I normally would with my condor with a modified light valve spring and hi flow valve.
i.e., normally at higher pressures when the hammer isnt opening up the valve fully you have a string that climbs the bell curve until it hits the sweet spot between hammer pressure and valve opening. then you get a flat string of shots all at the same fps then the bell drops off with shots slowing down and dropping on the target.
I didnt ever see the bell curve with any of the fills. I might try 3000 psi but seeing that 10 shots at 2900 psi = 300 psi loss.
VS.
10 shots at 2800 psi = 200 psi loss… well tells me I’m wasting air. I dont think I use that much psi for 10 condor shots. will have to look at old strings if i can find them.
I am probably wasting air at even the 2700 using only a 12″ bbl.
just my thoughts. sure others with much more experience and knowledge will chime in.
when I get a chance I will shoot a longer string and see what happens.
will let you all know.
N2
I believe they also make Talon sized tanks with a Condor return spring. I bought a tank from PA or Midway and it came with a heavier spring that when set to the same TH distance as a regular Talon tank was close to 300fps different.
I know that no tank and valve is the same but these are not even close. The brass insert has the extended holes which is different from the tank that came with my Talon SS.
Am I right to think the micro metering tank opening is even smaller than the Talons?
What they should make is a Condor tank with a Talon spring. I’ve also heard that the Condor return spring is weaker than the Talon’s.
Weird part is AF doesn’t mention any of this one their website…
I’d be interested in finding out what kind of ES you would achieve with a higher shot count?
Also, wouldn’t a higher start pressure yielding a higher extreme spread indicate not enough hammer weight/preload????
I’m glad my spare tank found a good home! You now have two guns in one and the lower power is a solid 26ft/lbs energy, plenty for small game.
Thanks for taking the time to record and post your findings!
:thumb:
Played around with the new talon tank last night using the heavy hammer I have in place.
didnt get much response to this post so I assume that no one has messed with shooting a talon tank with a heavy hammer so I thought I would post my initial results.
I turned my preload down to zero and ran a few strings at different fill pressures using the kodiak pellets. sorted at 21.1 gr.
the cool thing is that Shooting at 20 Yds I have to hold over exactly one mil dot to be spot on. havnt had enough time to see what this equates to as a zero yet.
So I shot a few strings with 0 preload.
1. Initial fill 2900 psi end 2600 psi. 10 shot string.
avg 762 fps ES – 27.28
2. initial 2800 psi end 2600 psi 10 shot string
avg 755 fps ES – 18.24
3. initial 2700 psi end 2500 psi
avg 744.4 ES – 20.38
the gun is a ton quieter with the talon tank and shooting 750 fps. think I will have to invest or build a little more os a ldc for it.
Obviously the 2900 psi is just wasting air with the heavy hammer. but I like the results with the 2800 psi fill. I dont think a spread of 18 fps over ten shots is bad. Might be able to tighten it up with a little playing with the preload and pressure.
The cool thing is that I can now just crank up the preload to 6 and put on my condor tank with a high flow valve and go spit out enjins at 980 fps and be zerod at 35 (I always filled condor tank to 2800 psi). OR set the preload at 0 and put on the talon tank and be slower and quieter.
Just gotta remember to adjust a bit on the scope.
having fun playing some more.
later
wade
Maybe I should have stated where I was headed with the gun.
I bought the condor yrs ago and went up the ladder in power and mods.
found the ballance of power and accuracy and widened my sweet spot with a larger tank.
Now I am headed back down the ladder to slower and quieter. I know opposite direction most folks take.
the tank ping and encroaching neighbors (stealth) and a deal on a talon tank started me down the mod road again.
this whole thing started when I wanted to get rid of some tank ping on the larger thinner tank… and blew up from there. Now I’m thinking on making this gun a quiet slower ss and building up another gun for power and range.
All in the fun of building, modding and messing around.
Cant find my darn stock hammer tho. hope I didnt trade it off or loose it.
later
wade
what is the point of a heavier hammer if you have a stock talon valve??? If you are running a stock talon valve just run a stock talon hammer. If you want to gain power you need to either upgrade to a condor hi flow valve or do the valve mod (port and flow) to your stock talon valve. You can find out how to do it somewhere in here (stickie). Perhaps someone will dig it out for you if interested. I don’t have time to look for it now, I’m at work. Hope this helps. There are many schools of thought out their on what makes power. One thing is certain it is a balance (harmony) of things. Heavier hammer weights are not solely or always the answer. Some of the higher end guns (not airforce) produce serious power with less hammer weight, but they are valves of a different design. The airforce valve/tank requires a certain amount of weight to open up. I have tried to make the most power with the least amount of hammer weight/preload (helps reduce hammer slam, bounce, “recoil”…all which can be detrimental to accuracy).
p.s. do not lower your TH to the point of the valve protrusion.
DUH! – been so long since I modded out my Condor that I forgot the basics…
found out that the talon hammer is the same as the stock condor hammer only the condor has the extra weight.
Just talked to AF.
Man they are GREAT about returning calls. I just left a msg last night.
been so long since I did my mods I forgot that.
Now I just gotta find my stock hammer if I can or order a new one from Tony maybe?
Still interested in opinions on how the heavy hammer would impact the stock talon valve.
thanks
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yeah, people never cease to amaze me… 😆