got a CO2 and HPA pressure question…HELP!!
hello all…was wondering, if a gun is designed for CO2, what would be a good operating pressure if i want to use HPA? here’s the plan: crosman 1077, its .177 shooting at 625 fps. run on remote. HPA tank has a 1000psi output, but im using a reg that’ll bring it down 0-900 psi. question is, what’s a good psi to run it to get full power? 800psi? 850? 900? thanks for any help!
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Glad to hear you talked with Mack, he is a great guy to work with, and has always taken the time to help anyone out. As for adjusting a Ninja reg, here’s a quick way. Be sure to test after to ensure where your regulator is in regard to output.
Here are some instructions Packrat put together fro another forum.
To get the regulator set for high output, the single spring and shims must be removed…From McMaster-Carr I ordered one pkg. of belleville washers, P/N 9712K66..they are the perfect size and come in a pkg. of 12, which is exactly how many I needed…cost was $4.87 plus shipping .They have to be installed like this: )) () () () () (( I ended up having to add one of the red shims in order to get the right pressure. The end result of this was 1400 PSI output, adjust as needed.
Casey
Paintball regulators CAN be re-ranged…just finished doing so with my Ninja reg last night actually. Some bellevilles from Fastenal, some shims, a setup to measure outlet pressure…and a little know how. Easy stuff.
A tank with 3000psi service pressure would have a 5000psi burst disc….which will match the hydrotest pressure of the tank. 😉
if i wanted to have a custom tank made, (tube reservoir like a “normal” airgun) what would be a good burst disk psi? i want to fill to 3k psi. thanks again guys!
the difference between the JDS airman regs and the HPA paintball regs is the output pressures. JDS has what, 1k-3k outputs non variable, and almost all paintball HPA tanks are set at 800 psi…there’s a high pressure output, but after install it’ll only put out 850psi. the tank side threads on the reg are all standard from what ive been told, so just get a large paintball tank, and use a JDS reg- thats the route im hoping to go. as far as the 1077 project, ive been speaking w/Mack and he has been verry helpful! pretty much w/the 1077 im stuck w/CO2. since (paraphrase from Mack) HPA is a volume and flow based gas and the fact that the 1077 valve not set up for and never was set up for HPA, its just better to run the rifle off of CO2…of course for my purposes, i might get an FX semi-auto, but i dunno…for 70 bucks i could have a base rifle…instead of fiddling around w/a 1200+ dollar rifle…
Still no luck on a 1200psi burst disc. 😕
If you’re going to check with Muzzle Mack…do it quick…he posted on AirgunHome that he intends to shut down. He has done more work with the 1077 than anyone else I’ve heard about as well…might be a good guy to talk to about this idea.
Airgunner…might be just the threads…don’t know as I don’t own an AF rifle…..what am I doing hangin round here??? 😆 (knowledge is where ever you find it)
Guerrilla reg seems better made IMO and has some features I like…jds reg looks like the stuff on ebay for ~$20, and doesn’t seem to have down stream protection.
Can’t say for sure if a Guerrilla reg will keep up with a Condor, but they don’t seem to have any problems keeping up with the full auto paintball crowd.
Al
Also check with Muzzle Mack, I believe he sells an adapter to bulk fill those safely. The extension could also supply a place to install a burst disk. You can’t be too careful with HPA. And regarding your other question 850-900 PSI is right in line with CO2 pressures, but as Gippeto stated 1000 PSI would be just fine, and give a little boost. Biggest thing is when your using HPA it’s not temp sensitive on the same level as CO2. I do understand that compressed air will rise slightly in pressure at high temps, but not as unstable as CO2. Like the graph he posted, if you look closely you will notice once the temperature rises above 90 or so degrees, CO2 gets very unstable, and it’s pressures can be unpredictable. Be safe, and good luck.
Casey
Yep – already been there multiple times and tried to determine the diiference. Maybe it’s the threads only ? (I’ve never been involved with paint ball). Regulation is quite standard, but may vary based on various gases, sometimes due to seal deterioation and sometimes due to vicosity, mass flow or density.
The reason I had interest is that the GuerillaAir site says “instant reaction time”, which JDSAirMan doesn’t. And since the ZTAC adapter isn’t available yet, there is a concern regarding large volume flow.
AirGunner…it’s a GOOD thing to ask questions….it’s even better to do just a LITTLE bit of work on your own to answer them. Did you try looking at the sites to see what the differences might be?
Have a look, have a read and lets hear what YOU think. 🙂
What is the difference between a Guerrilla Air Myth Tank Regulator and a JDSAirMan Regulator ? Are they interchangeable for Condor / Talon usage with a 3000 psi tank ?
Figures…navy…guess they never told you about women eh? 😛
The bottle reg should have one burst disk for the bottle…and another for the downstream side. It’s the downstream side that you need to worry about.
Typically the bottle burst disk will be 5K or 7.5K and the outlet side 1.8K from the factory.
Addendum: Went to JDS site and had a look at his regs…they LOOK (won’t say they ARE) just like the China stuff on ebay…with only one disk. 😯
If this is accurate in your case, I would suggest replacing it with a Ninja or Guerrilla air myth 4500psi reg as they have discs protecting downstream. Personally I like the Ninja reg.
Before spending money on the replacement….might be an idea to find the 1200psi burst disc first….not even sure yet if anyone makes one .
Will do some checking on it too, might be useful.
Al
con-dom? im a Marine man, i have no idea what those are. i understand what youre saying about the burst disk though. there’s a burst disk on the tank reg (the 1k psi output), would i be safe w/just that one? and where would i put the second burst disk if i need one? im using a jds airman reg on a 90cu 4500psi tank, going to the stabilizer, then going into the gun…not sure where id put a second burst disk…
Do you take a rubber with you when you go on a date? 😉
It’s the same thing with the burst disc. It’s there “just in case”…because stuff DOES happen…regs DO fail, and cheap insurance, is…well…cheap.
I have a Palmers stabilizer as well. Not a bad reg, but really…no better than any other. I’ll still stack the odds in my favor by using the appropriate burst disc on the bottle reg.
Find the burst disc…and 1000psi air will be okay. Bit of a performance boost over co2 as well. 🙂
well, the output pressure of the tank, like i said is only 1000 psi anyway, and the reg im using ive used before, and ive never had any problems with them. its a Palmer Stabilizer reg. so looking at the graph, would 850psi be too low of a working pressure for the rifle?? thanks again!
Co2 vapor pressure is rather temperature dependent.
On a “warmish” day of ~83F, co2 is going to be at the 1000psi mark anyway. From personal experience (up to ~94F), the 1077 will handle that.
Issue comes about IF the reg fails. Bad mojo in something not designed to handle the full bottle pressure. Would need an outlet side burst disk @ 1200 to 1300psi to be “safer”. Would not do this unless you find the burst disk at the lower pressure. Lowest I can find is 1800psi…which IMNSHO is too much pressure to risk in the 1077 with its “pot metal” looking valve.
Al
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yeah Mack is a great guy…too bad he’s shutting down shop for a while, bad stuff always happens to good people… 🙁 well, with the 1077 project ill just have to run remote with CO2 not HPA… no biggie. i just dont want to have a new valve made!! its a liiiitle too much money to spend on a 1077…