Managing air

Shooting PCP’s means using air, the more of them you shoot and the bore size can mean you use a lot of air.

I have a Condor 25, with a RL Extreme Valve, a AA410 SL 22 carbine and a Ranger 45, the Condor sees dual service when equipped with a Airarcher conversion that gets me 500 FPS, they are all air hogs.

I started off with the Condor in a 22 and used a pump, three of them over a three month period as a matter of fact, they kept on breaking down and AF always replaced them, but that was not the answer.

So I got a refund for the last broken pump from AF and bought a scuba tank, then another so I could cascade fill.

Driving the 40 miles to the dive shop got tiring, so when I learned of the Shoebox compressor, I felt I had the answer.

But like most of this Air Gun stuff, it was just a small down payment on a bench full of equipment.

I now have the Shoebox, three 44 cuft tanks, two of which are used as a cascade system, a 69 cuin Pygmy tank to use in the field, a regulator, and a Booster pump to use when I don’t have electricty and to fill the Ranger 45 to it’s 4500 PSI fill level, which on hi power setting gives me just two shots with 420 grain bullets at the 600 to 650 FPE level.

I have the Shoebox set up with a Harbor Freight oilless compressor, the 1.5 HP 6 gallon model, the little one died after 7 months of service, 20 feet of coiled hose and two dessicant filters, and two cooling fans.

The cooling fans were a great improvement, before I used them, I was constantly replacing the cylinder “O” rings in the Shoebox, it has been a few months since I had to now.

I now use the two cascaded 44 cuft tanks to fill the Pygmy bottle and attach the regulator.

This morning I shot my Condor and the AA S410 for the first time tethered to the regulated Pygmy bottle. First thing I noticed is that it takes about 500 PSI out of that little bottle to fill the regulator and the hose, but I think it would take a 500 ct tin of Kings to take it from 3800 PSI to 2500 PSI. With the AA S410, you can shoot all day.

I am still looking for a back pack to carry that little Pygmy bottle in, maybe one of the Camel back systems will work. Then I can shoot all day long during the pesting season on the vineyard and not need to go to the house for air, before this system, it was a 45 minute hunt and another 30 minutes to get back and refill.

I have tethered the Ranger before, but I kept destroying the “O” rings in the fill valve, Dan Mcvey, the builder has replaced the valve with another one he said will fix that, but I just fill directly from the large scba bottles or when in the filed from the Pygmy bottle.

I have the Regulator set up with a quick disconnet, so I can now switch it back and forth from the scba bottles or Pygmy to the Booster when needed.

The Booster pump allows me to fill a Pygmy bottle or the Ranger to 4500 PSI from the two cascaded 44 cuft tanks, even if they are at 3000 PSI to 2000 PSI, I can still boost the pressure in the Pygmee tank to 4500 PSI.

I wanted a system that would allow me to do this using the Pygmy as the air source for the Booster and then fill the Ranger to 4500 PSI, but there is not enough volume in the Pygmy to do that reliably, finding out today that it takes 500 PSI out of the Pygmy bottle for the regulator solved that mystery..

It is still a work in progress, just about finished, at least I and my visa card hope so. 😯

Regards,

Roachcreek

steveinla

Participant

July 31, 2011 at 9:27 pm

Wow! Free advice, from an expert on HPA systems, on how to build up a pump that you can find…somewhere. That’s a generous offer. :thumb:

I thought about that. But, I determined that I wanted a turn-key compressor that I could have in service the day it arrived. That’s what I paid for and have never regretted it. Thanks again Jim!

I think that we are very fortunate to have men like Mr. Shelden and Tom Kaye. They are both competent individuals who have contributed to our sport. Whether you choose a higher CFM compressor from Mr. Shelden, or a Shoebox from Mr. Kaye, it will be a step in the right direction. It’s like having your own car instead of taking the bus. $20,000 – $30,000 for a car would buy many a bus ride, or taxi ride, but we’d rather have our own. You could think of a compressor the same way. 😉

jim-shelden

July 31, 2011 at 7:27 pm

Guys, on occasion I buy a compressor that some one has built that is not pretty — frame rusty, not painted, gas engine,etc. IF the compressor is good or I have reworked it to pump 3000-4000PSI, I sell them for Considerably less than one that has all new components. They are working ok and SAFE, but I won’t give the same new product guarantee.
Price ranges from $900 to $1300 plus shipping.
I don’t sell bare compressors because I don’t want some unsafe product floating around that I sold. I will help any individual who finds a kidde compressor build it into a good system. There are some floating around from surplus sales 10-20 years ago and I give free advise for anyone with a DYI project.
Join <Compressor_Team> a yahoo group like The Yellow Forum that is devoted to converting military compressors for SCUBA, Paintball, HP air guns
Jim Shelden

roachcreek

July 31, 2011 at 6:04 pm

I have under 2 K in everything right now, but the way I keep buying fittings from North Shore it won’t be long before I get to that 2.5K mark.

But still you need or I need a regulator, and zI need a Booster for elk hunting and I need carbon fiber tanks.

The big compressors are fast, but I topped off three tanks this morning, it has taken me 4 hours to do that, which for a old retired guy I can live with that.

I have decided the quick disconnect on the regulator is a no go, it leaks too much air when I fill the system, so having three hand tigheningCGA 347 SCBA connectors, and four bottles, I decided to put one of the CGA 347 hand connectors on the regulator and attach directly to the tanks, a little slower, but uses less air. The quick disconnects leak quite a lot of air until the get pressurized and seal.

Another advantage with the scba bottle and regulator, in addition to tethered shooting, is you never overfill if you use it to fill your gun. I can set it at 2750 PSI and just turn it on knowing it will not overfill anything I have.

I am also toying with the Idea of connecting all three 44 cuft tanks together for a super cascade system, with all I have it would just take about another 50 bucks in parts, but then I would have to build a carrying cabinet for it.

July 31, 2011 at 5:43 pm

2000-2500 in 10 minutes. 😀 When I was tuning my .25 Marauder, I
used lots of air. It was just too cool to refill my tank again, and again,
etc.. 😀

It was a choice of buying another expensive airgun that I wouldn’t use, or
a compressor that lets me use what I do have, as much as I like.

dyotat100

July 31, 2011 at 5:14 pm

I have one also. One of the best things I have bought. Just filled my tank yesterday. Its so nice not to have to rely on some shaddy shop to fill your tanks. The thing that finalized buying one was when I went to a different dive shop because my local one had no air and they asked for a padi card to fill my Scott air pack. Also wanted a yearly inspection sticker which they don’t need. I also could never get a full fill without taking it back to them to top it off. I have 5 hrs on mine so far. I put a hour meter on it to keep track of time for oil and filter changes. But you can tell that I have filled my tanks probably at least 20 times in the 5 hours. $7.00-$10.00 a fill it will pay for it’s self some day. I use a lot of air playing with regs. Went through a tank one day just playing with the shims changing the reg output pressure.

powderburner

July 31, 2011 at 4:50 pm

That would definitely be the trick to have a few people together on the compressor, hell or even get hooked up with paintballers or who ever needs air and charge for the fill to help the purchase .

I like the idea of having my own compressor, but i don’t like the idea of having to Waite for ever on a small compressor.

I do know one thing, if they ever say my inspection is up on my 88 Carbon fiber tank , which is a long while , i will buy a compresser of some kind,rather than spend that money again.

Go from 2000 to 4500 in 15 minutes, thats some air !!!

JIm is there a way to get a pump and build the frame and add a motor myself,

July 31, 2011 at 4:41 pm

I know, I’m crazy. 😉 I had a buddy of mine who was encouraging
me to buy a .25 Rapid…think $2 to $3K. I thought what’s the point? I
don’t shoot the PCP’s that I have due to the air consumption. That’s when
Mamcrackin motivated me to contact Mr. Shelden. I am pleased that I
bought my HPA compressor. It’s sweet. I must confess that I don’t use it
very often, because I frankly have more air than I know what to do
with. 😀

The shoebox is a great alternative. I would encourage anyone to buy a
Shoebox compressor for hobby type consumption. It’s a great deal.

I look at RC’s set up and start thinking that he might have been better
served by buying one of Mr. Shelden’s compressors. I say that because
he has added so many gismos to the basic concept of the Shoebox.
Remember, RC grew into this. It wasn’t planned. He started with an AF
gun and went from there. He added a regulator and better optics. Now he
has an AirArms carbine and a big bore that sucks air like my 460 V8. (I
find it interesting that you have an S410 carbine that is capable of sipping
air next to your big bore; right on, RC :thumb: ) He has done what many
of us have done. He has progressed through his airgun journey of
discovery. Those of us who have continued on this path have spent more
money than we ever thought we would…and don’t regret it at all! 😆

It’s a great idea to get several guys together to buy a big compressor.
The problem is that we are so spread out over the planet and that makes
it geographically impossible.

For the new guys, start with a carbon fiber, 4500psi tank, (if you can get
it filled.) You will get many refills of your gun. The aluminum 80 is
cheaper, but you will always be wanting more air.

July 31, 2011 at 3:10 pm

The guys that really use air are serious hog and elk hunters that shoot 50 cal rifles and shoot hundreds of times on a weekend hunt with 5-6 guys all shooting. I have sold some to 3-4 guys that hunt together and they divide the compressor price among the group.
Jim Shelden

July 31, 2011 at 2:56 pm

That stock on the .45 is lookin good rc.

Stevein La and Jim , thats what i am talking about, i would love to have a compressor, but dam, 2350.00 for the chaapest one,thats 237.5 fills for me.

If i am shooting 14 grain pellets in the 900″s i get a ton of shots and dont use much air, but the condor set up for 32 grain stuff at 1000 , now that is an air hog.

I was trying to think of how many times i have taken my tank to get filled, Maybe 6 times, seems like it should be more for 2 years, and 3 of those was when tuneing for the heavy pellets.

I really get allot of shots out of the 88cu. ft. 4500 psi carbon tank when only filling to 1900 psi to 2100 psi in the condor.

July 31, 2011 at 4:34 am

Jim,

Someday I just might sell all this air making equipment and call you.

Steve,

I guess it is all a matter of taste o those poplar stocks.

I like true classic walnut stocks, if I could find someone to inlet one for me for that AA S410 I would probably buy a uninletted non montecarlo stock.

I have started shaping my Ranger 45 stock as you can see, put a coat on it to keep it stable until I get a better wood eating rasp. It was their bottom budget stock with no cheek peice and had entirely too much wood on it, and it still does.

On the A S410 Carbine. I think it would be easy to take a mill and a 3x4x12 inch piece of aluminum and inlet it for the trigger guard, gauge and air tube, drill the end for a AR 15 buffer tube, mill a AR 15 pistol grip adapter like WOK does, then put threads on the other end for a peice of 2 inch aluminum tube milled out to look like a tactical shorty handguard.

Then hang a Magpul adjustable stock on it. Bacially a copy of the Terryx stock but have a provision to put a tube handguard on it.

I suspect Riverside has about a dozen half finished projects like that at home.

Personally I have a lot of ideas but not a lick of talent at those things.

July 31, 2011 at 2:48 am

I’m the Jim Shelden that sold the big compressor shown in this thread
I have several smaller ones that are 4500PSI electric and will run all day.
2.2 CFM will fill an 86 cu ft. fiber tank from empty to 4500 in 38 minutes. Fill from 2000 to 4500 in 16 minutes.
Go to my web site <sheldensportinggoods.com> also talk to mamcrackin — he has had one for 3 years.
IF you want plenty of air for the big guns — call me 316-992-0505
Jim Shelden