Rifled- Modified OEM Valve
Guys,
Here is something I chewed out and still have not tried it, but is my way of thinking and having a darn hard time getting someone to turn me one of these out with the help of the right equipment…
Working in the oilfield welding and construction of pipelines all over, rifled flows run way more volume and work extremely well when put in the right place for the right reasons…
Hence may way of thinking on one of these valves for the Condor. I have cut the holes down and off center to help rifle the air charge direction with the rifling in the barrel as well.
I further added three rifled relief flutes in the seat spaced around the OD… Crude, hell ya’, I did this with a cordless drill and assortment of hand files and carbide burr’s…
This will be the baby version to have a look see at how much difference it allows… I want to actually build one of these with the ID of the tube at .225″ and I want the ports cut in at an angle to begin with, instead of how I had to do these. I can seem to get a stem made like I want or even one shipped to me without the ports drilled. I want these ports cut and then further honed, along with the seat…
The seat is made from some CPS that is made to take a pounding and just come back for me, least that is how it was told to me LOL… Time well tell if all the slope and free play in my old worn out drill got things cut to far into each other and I have no seal left or not… Then if by some small chance, everything is happy when the pressure is on, we can see how the fire for affect ends up…
Have a look see at what I have going on here:
Now mind you I still need to clean all this up good and get all the fussy fur off it LOL…
Thats it for now, see how it goes or not soon and be back with the details…
All Replies
😆 😆 😆
:thumb:
That was pretty damned funny.
Hey, It was just a stock hi-flo at about .21 like you said. As I said I only did a 2200 psi fill, I have no idea if at a higher fill pressure things could be better. I also like the idea of boring everything out. I have a source of free air at work, but it only goes to 2200 psi. I am trying to get all power I can from 2200 down to 1500. I think you are on the rite track for what I need.
Keep us posted on your progress, you know if you give up ,they win.
Andy,
What is the ID of your stem? The two of mine I have decided to sacrafice for all this chewing on are .214″… As mentioned already I really want to get one tuned to .24-.25″ or somewhere in that area, then bore the body to allow the larger OD of the stem… The larger ID would help the outcome…
I am really surprized you didn’t see some kind of improvement, why I asked about the ID size… You may be limited from the size of your stems ID
I need to weigh out my hammer also, as I have no idea what this hammer I chewed out tips the scale at. My spring is about as strong as I ever want to use. I have more than a few up and down in strength and I just don’t like them any stronger than the one I have in right now. I actually have one that is somewhat more lighter that I perfer the most LOL…
Just came in from the shop, got some bad news. Filled the tank to 2200 lbs and made 5 shots, 942, 947, 947,945 and 943. Pulled the top hat and stem while the tank was still charged, I wasn’t sure you could do that. Ground the shit out of the stem, I did grind it on a taper on both sides and it did resemble a tear drop. Stuck it back in, it took 2 shoots to seat the stem but the next 5 shot 942, 943, 940, 948 and 939. As far as I can tell it made no difference at all.
Is the way I did it a good test or should try it a different way?
I fill bad, the idea looked great to me. for alls info, I did not touch the valve.
Syn, always the romantic…
Wouldn’t a tear drop shaped end be the best for flow? 🙂
I don’t know that the rifling will help but I think that grinding out the stem the way you did is a great idea. With that part ground out the air seems that it would have a straight shot up the stem. I think I have read every post on this site and have not seen anyone else try this, I now happen to have a couple extra stems to play with and I am definitely going to explore this.
CI should have some data in a couple of days, will keep you posted.
If you ever dry-fire that setup by accident, ya might find out you created the worlds most dangerous whistle. That stem looks lethal !:D
Damn, no need for ammo!
Perhaps the rifling in the CPS seat will have the desired effect regardless of the impact of turbulence; it’s hard for anyone without a degree in physics to predict. At the tank pressures involved, air passing over the CPS may travel faster over the increased opening; but, air passing over non-parallel grooves creates a vacuum within the grooves, kind of like a trompe. So there’s more room for the air to travel and the competing force of friction. The friction decreases (as a percent) with the tightening of the top hat 😕
💡 What if the CPS had straight grooves, increasing air flow by effectively decreasing the OD? The air passing through the stem isn’t going over a groove, but will have an eccentric exit. The advantage of the rifled seat might be its strength. Rowdy, if you don’t get the desired effect and got some more CPS, maybe trying the straight groove is worth a shot, or two.
Then, there’s the effect of the pellet…my brain hurts
AirGunner,
You are exactly right on the flow with 90 degree fittings and those are something I never use unless absolutely no other choice. I usually take two or more 45’s and roll them as an offset or however to make the fit for the path of flow we wanted…
This was something I just had to try… Reguardless of the outcome… I have cleanup many areas of flow with liquid and/or gases… I was given instruments that measured the flow of the different products seperated in a three phase unit. The micro-motion measurement device just was not working well at all. I made different rifled veins and one straighting vein and the three different Micro-motion units started to sing…
They worked so well in fact, I was told to make the seperators to see if I could make a three phase unit that would speed the process up any. I made one unit and fabed that sucker up, fitted the discharge nipples with the rifled veins and the one huge intake nipple with a straighting vein and that really did the trick guys.
Once that was used and messed with by all the golden screwdriver guys in the field of measurement and instrumentation, I fitted up 13 more satelites in the field with the entire setup as the first one… Last time I went by one of them, it was still in the field being used, that would have like the last ones I made in 1995-96 time frame also…
Now they just flat out worked great, they were all plumbed in with no 90’s anywhere at the site above the ground, with the focus on retention time frame of the product… So, heck guys I had to try this to see if anything could be had extra or not LOL…
Good or bad, I want everyone to always be right up front with me… I already know everyone of you guys have eaten your young, so I am not so sensitive as someone that doesn’t know where you all come from LOL… Besides I am old and tuff to chew on anyway 🙂 🙂 🙂
Well, here is what I know about this chewed on valve, it shoots fine and does seal very well, least so far… I didn’t have but like 2200-2400psi to fill with my cascade system 👿 👿 👿
So, I have to get by this guy whom fills my tanks for me. Then I can see how this all works with the 3K fill… The other part that is not good is my Chrony is still not fixed or replaced just yet either, so a good test between the two different valves I have that are just alike with the exception of the one rifled…
The Condor fired the .25 JSB’s still really hard, but not breaking the sound barrier. I had the other valve I just removed, top hat set at .080-.081″… This rifled one went in at .072″ spot on… Still the JSB’s at the fill psi of 2200 were slammin’ pretty hard and the impact at the POI sounded harder to me than the other valve was doing with a full fill to 3K…
For the sake of argument, my ears listening to the impact of the light weight JSB-25.4’s @70 yards to the back of my place could be a stretch I guess… One might think I wanted this to slam the 4X4 posts I was shooting at bad enough I had it doing so in my head only LOL…
Actually, what I was hoping for since I don’t have the Chrony up and going as of yet, I am shooting for the sonic crack, to let me know I in fact had increased the speed… Which I have yet to achieve, bummer for sure, but the fat lady main’t sang yet!!! so its not over yet 😉 😉 😉
I just need to know if this will be worth doing to my next valve stem I am going to make or have made with a bigger ID… This doesn’t work on this smaller valve, its not going on the larger new one…
Being honest here, it would not surprize me at all if the difference between the two would not be enough to measure consistantly over a dozen tank fills with the two… Time will tell the outcome, good or bad as it may or may not be LOL… Its been fun making this all come to be so far, and I plan to enjoy the rest of it as well. Good and the bad…
Methinks less twist in your rifling would probably increase the amount of air allowed past the seal, and still impart a slight twist to the air itself.
Since the air is basically flowing down a straight tube all the way to the exit, you can basically throw away all worry about the air slowing down much. The turbulence will be negligible compared to the extra flow from your groove.
But thats just my opinion of course. The booksmartasses here will undoubtedly disagree. 😉
C’mon guys, let the guy have his shot at fame and glory. I’ll bet he can sing the blues just as well as anyone else can. Personally I don’t think a vortex would work, but then again, I never bought one of them things to put inside your carburetor either. (or fuel injection air inlet)
Some numbers might help later, when you have the data.
Why is the seal brown?
walt
Since you worked the oil fields maybe you met a plumber at some time that knew a HVAC guy that talked to an engineer, that would have told you that every 90 degree turn in air ducting reduces the energy of the flow by 3%. That is a with a smooth design, and unobstructed.
I would say you are in for a whopping dissapointment.
I believe rifled flows in fluids is for avoiding turbulence due to momentum impact during surges, not at all for increasing flow rate, which is actually reduced to achieve that.
I suppose the statement would be:
a “vortex done right” helps, while a “vortex done wrong” makes a mess.
Getting to ‘right’ though, I’d assume you’d need a lot of time and delrin on your hands, or a crazy crazy lab setup.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
My Bad