Price rise.
Dear guys,
Both EDgun lovers and EDgun haters (I know that my guns doesn’t leave anybody untouched either love or hate 🙂 ).
I told you already that Russian Federation is a very difficult country to send my guns (any guns) out, curious thing I got a letter from a man who wants to get Cricket guns, saying “The manufacturer Kalibre won’t ship outside, you know probably Dimitry good, do You have time to order two Cricket for me?” As you say LOL 🙂 It just confirms what I say — Russia is a hard country to send guns out. Yes, we can discuss that it is not right, they have to be happy that there is a demand for goods made in Russia rather oil or gas, bla-bla-bla… You know that, I know that but fact is — Russia is a country very HARD to take guns from?
The next fact — the United States is a very hard country to get guns in. Don’t laugh, that is also fact. I explain. You are used to the fact that airgun are not considered as guns in your country at all, but on the same way your government send requirements to other countries, saying about control of weapon sent to U.S. they don’t have anything against weapon in US they just don’t want to have it sent there 🙂 Thus it is VERY difficult to send anything to States from Europe. Not because United States doesn’t accept it, just because many European countries just refuse to send anything similar to weapon to U.S. I found the only one way and it cost me money, as logistic of the delivery is very strange, but it works, at least.
So, having have two facts about difficulty of the getting guns into United States I don’t finish yet. The third and most important fact — I have a zero or close to zero profitability of selling my guns to your country. And if I easily sell my guns in Europe for 1 600 euro shipped I got the questions from them like that “can u explain to me why from tony in florida it cost 1650 dollars and u as the manufacture is 500 dollars more?? thats a week worth of work in the us now. i sure hope u made a mistake and u mean 1600 dollars.” What should I answer them? Something like — America is a great market and I have to bear the loose just to get there? That is stupid argument to my point of view. America is a great market, indeed, but if I lose profit being at that market, why do I need it? Correct — I don’t need it at all, having a great waiting line of those who wants my guns in Europe and Russia for the price I consider normal. For you information, the price for standard Matador R3, unshipped, at my place, now is 46 000 roubles, that makes 1 483 US dollars. Tony sells them to you for 1 650 US dollars shipped. Just 167 dollars of profit, which “covers” the expenditures for custom execution of the guns in Russia, delivery them to Europe, then delivery along the Europe then delivery to Tony in U.S. then delivery to clients from Tony, plus Tony’s interest. How do I survive?
On the same time Tony tells me “Just give me 100 R3 standards today and I sell them all tomorrow!” I have no doubt he would do it. Do I need it taking into consideration above said? I hope you understand that I don’t. What should we do? To keep going on with the same price is double stupid, from point of view of business and the reputation in Europe. Tony says “Edward, if you rise the price – we will not have such a number of those who wants to buy it !” OK, I am ready to that, besides I still have the problems with delivery guns to U.S. and it is better for me to sell 100 guns for 110 people who wants them for the price I need, rather then to sell the same 100 guns to 500 guys who wants them to buy for the price they like. It is quite logical isn’t it? Tony says “Edward, you want to rise the price to the Stayer level, it is too much!” OK, but if my guns shoots at least not worse then Stayer, it is accurate, compact, easy repaired by the owner, me and Tony support our clients, listen to them etc, etc, etc, why should it cost less? Where is the logician?
So, I made a decision – the price of Matador in US from today will be 1 950 US dollars. Those who are in Tony’s list for now will have it for the price it was agreed before, the rise of the price will not influence them, but if they leave that list and then will want to get back – there will be new price for them. If we fail and NOBODY will want to buy my guns for that price – OK, I close U.S. for myself as a market, at least until I will find the way either to make it cheaper or have a better way of the delivery.
I do hope that you will understand the reasons of such a step from my side and whatever happens I still remain your friend and will always be happy to talk with you either on this forum or by e-mails.
Yours
Ed
All Replies
Euro vs US dollars. You will not belive it but it is true. The price, in figures can be the same but the currency will be different. I wanted to by Macbook, 13 inches screen. It cost 1 499 US dollars in U.S.A and exactly 1 499 but euro in Finland (I am going there for mountain skying for a week). So…
Ed,
Good for you man, you stick to your quality above all… The world already has more than enough cheap stuff… I don’t have one of your EdGuns, I have never even shot a BullPup air rifle. Would love to try one out really. I already know I like my shorter over all length Condor now, at the cost of loosing the FPE from the shorter barrel, which most that know me, will tell you; I am a power junky and a gearhead… I do expect them to have the best accracy though, once the power is there, and I like being able to adjust things to get the accuracy back once I get all the power I want…
With the BullPup rifles I would get to keep my full length barrel and still be a shorter over all length… You have already shown with the rifles here in the US, your rifles shoot really well indeed. From everthing I have read on here as well as AirgunAdvice forum the only thing I have seen to be a problem is the time wait for one of your rifles LOL…
Bring one of these rifles of yours to the US market with a magazine dude and you will get your money you need… I would be most interested in one with a magazine, long as you keep the power they have and the accuracy…
Then on a note about wanting to bring an assembly line to America, I would think a place I would start looking at would be one of the Firearms manufactures already in business here… Like Smith and Wesson, they are already making knifes and all sorts of things, or at least they have them built else where and bring them to our market with their name on them. The problem here is they have things built in China and others and the quality goes right out the door… Please don’t follow that path here!!!
You come over here and look into this assembly line here, you would be well advised to make sure it stays here to be made, and not sent somewhere else and then brought back in the US at their expense…
It would seem to me with all the uneployment here in the USA right now, the business would be good, but funny as businesses come in to US the stuff gets done elsewhere in the world and then brought back here for sale, purposes only… The political game is the biggest problem we all face with the global market all the politicians have thrown us in…
We take all the money back from all the politicians, attorney’s and lawyers that they cost us each year, makes me wonder if all the problems would just about dissappear all together… That group of people are the only ones making in good money right now, them and the criminals that steal everything out right LOL…
I for one hope to see you stay in the US market Ed, I would love to buy one of your rifles once you get a magazine feed version. You keep your quality as is or better, do the price as you have to, in order to stay in business here in the US, I bet the business will still be here man!!!
Heck I am in the process of going to build up one of the improved Rapid type airrifles being made in Calif. USA, mentioned above on the concern of the price they are getting for their products. Its all about their improved product over what is already out there, and the quality they stick too…I only have the action and a few of the smaller parts at this point, but its going to come together this year I hope… Long as I can get on a list of the few that can make the stuff I need to build this air rifle at the quality I seek…
The price, I will wait till I can afford the parts these guys build, just long as I can get them, for the quality they are made… Seems to me you guys are alot alike in how your quality is the selling feature… Maybe you guys should try working together??? Chip, Gordon and Earnie all seem to really be on top of their game with what they bring to the airgun market they choose to build for… I know I sure want to build up one from their products LOL… Might have a look see at some of the stuff they are doing, if you have not already…
Good Luck in 2012 Ed…
Even if it was 2000$, you’re cheaper then us Europeans.. 🙁
We have to pay: 1,600.00 EUR = 2,091.16 USD
And that’s not chipped or…
Kazzz, i’m wondering exactly the same question since a couple of months.
Ed, why here in Europe we have to pay more than US? When i’ve bought my Matador the price was 1600€ while the price via Tony was 1650$? It’s a big difference when you hear that shipping a Matador in US is more difficult compared with EC.
Well, now you see, that I equal it 🙂 but talking seriously though delivery to U.S. is more complecated I deliver there many guns at once and that spread the cost of the delivery to the all guns, in Europe, usually I delivery one gun per person, or few guns to a dealer, I just calculated the average expensice for the delivery and, yes, those who leave close to Estonia, say Poland or so while paying 1 600 euro pay for that guy who live in Spain or Portugal for example. Is it not fair? Maybe, but it is easier to work. Besides Tony didn’t have guns for a long time and even if the price in U.S. would be 1 000 US dollars, that wouldn’t change anything.
No, that means only that I equal the price for all Matadors, not matter the caliber or size, so buying short one you pay a little more, buying a long one in 6.35 you pay a little less 🙂 The price for ALL models and calibers of Matador will be from now 1 950 US dollars. That price that allows me to keep interest in American market.
Since Lelya and Veles were made later then Matador I put the normal price for me to them, besides the delivery of them is done with Matadors together and due to their small size and weight I don’t bear to much expenditures for delivery. Yes, the price for them is the same as it was before, at least for now 🙂
That is exactly correct. In fact, for me, personally I prefer to buy a good quality thing to use it long time, rather then to buy cheap things to change them quickly. So I would prefer to stay in the expensive sector of the PCP gun market, trying to make my guns as perfect as I can today no matter the price I pay for making it and price the client should pay for it. It seems to me the time of “cheap chinise shit” passes by and more and more people realize that quality worse money.
Ed
What will the price of the Lelya be? Or is it to stay the same?
Hoot
There WILL ALWAYS be old people and therefore knitting and needlepoint… Every child that is born will generally grow old at some point… 😉
Actually it’s the opposite. Ranges get quite a pass since it’s confined and easy to control the distribution of the lead at or outside the range site. The dirt is simply taken to a facility where it can be stored for a nominal fee (or have the lead removed and mixed with good dirt until it passes a sampling test). Hunting in the wilderness regulations are becoming more and more strict. In many parts (if not all) of California lead shot is prohibited yet it is welcomed at most if not all ranges.
I’ve seen more high end (over $1000) airguns released recently (since 2008) than ever before. High end (and low end) items are not suffering as much as mid range stuff. While Dodge and GM had shitty years, Ferrari is experiencing it’s best year in it’s entire history. In my own experience I dumped my midline airgun and went for a super high end airgun, two of them actually. People who understand quality will pay for it even if it’s a little more money. One can easily spend more than a high end rifle trying to get a substandard one to shoot like a high end one.
Crosman is the shining example of selling the low end part of the line and making quite a bit of cash, Problem is there will always be more competition in the low end markets because anyone with a pulse can make crappy stuff and when people are looking to not spend money the concept of quality is basically tossed out the window. Bad reviews get more exposure than good press and once you build junk getting into the high end market is next to impossible (cough, Rogue, cough). And one a high end company starts reducing the quality while maintaining the same price point they will quickly fail.
A 1/2″ group at 50 yards is a 1/2″ group at 50 yards. Early American explorers shot with a pcp rifle, how do you stay ahead of the technological curve in airgunning? It’s about accuracy (and repeatability of that accuracy) at a given price point, the rest is fit and finish (aka personal preference). One of the most ahead of the curve air rifles in recent history was in fact a simplification of existing ideas (LArry Durham’s Simple Simon). AirWolf rifles with the electronic triggers are not flying off the shelves compared to the same rifle with a regular trigger, in many instances in airgunning adding new and ahead of the curve technology will turn folks away (even if that technology works really well).
So does that mean that R3 .25 long is now $2250.00? BTW-Does this mean that you’ll now give Tony the 100 Matadors you discussed in your post above?
Even if it was 2000$, you’re cheaper then us Europeans.. 🙁
We have to pay: 1,600.00 EUR = 2,091.16 USD
And that’s not chipped or…
Kazzz, i’m wondering exactly the same question since a couple of months.
Ed, why here in Europe we have to pay more than US? When i’ve bought my Matador the price was 1600€ while the price via Tony was 1650$? It’s a big difference when you hear that shipping a Matador in US is more difficult compared with EC.
I was always interesting what moves people saying, for example about the environment pollution with, say, lead, while driving a car among thousands car around 🙂 Or talking about industrial pollution and the climate change when they have a voolcano like that Iceland, forgot its name, which just for a day covered half a Europe with the dust :), funny…
This is a tough market for many reasons.
How many new inductees came into the airgun world over Christmas vs. those that got an iPhone or iPad ?
The world of hobbies is changing. Take a look at a non regulated industry like quilting or sewing. All the poeple on those forums are old. No offense, but wake up and realize that airgunning, as is hunting, as is target shooting, is a declining interest.
Sure we see images of people who have 20 airguns, but for what.. collection purposes… surely they don’t have enough to shot at that they need 20 airguns.
Here’s the other kicker, is that LEAD is not environemetnally friendly, and to deposit lead for the “fun of it” (target shooting) is going to get regulated faster than depositing lead for need (hunting).
To make a living in the US airgun market, one needs to be way ahead of the curve, as the buyers are becoming few and far between.
I give it no more than 5 years, and it will be a totally different marketing world than you have seen in the last 20 years.
Look forward to your visit Ed.You will certanly be welcomed by all U.S.
airgunners.Also anything to improve access to your guns would be
appreciated.Sometimes we are a model behind by the time we get our
guns that is one thing to consider also your videos are great but
updating owners manual must be at least 5 years old and English copy would
be nice.We here in US. appreciate your efforts and the great guns
you make. Sincerely,Mark Hagan
Thank you, guns, for all support I got to PM an e-mails. As for the US manufacturing, that is another issue — I run the production line in Russia/Europe and that take a lot of money, to open the same volume production in US — I just have no financial possibility to do it. But I have a plan to make in anyhow in the future. I plan to come to U.S. next year for few reason, including to find out the solution for establishing a production line there.
With the best regards
Ed
Guys,
Even if it was 2000$, you’re cheaper then us Europeans.. 🙁
We have to pay: 1,600.00 EUR = 2,091.16 USD
And that’s not chipped or…
Ed,
I agree with almost every word rossall typed. You do what you have to do!!
Although, I will say that if i were not already on the list, the price increase might (only might) turn me away.
As was posted earlier, would importing components be easier?
Patiently waiting on my R3….
Jeff D
😀
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Hi Ed,
Just a kind word about the beautiful wood on the R3. Don’t feel you have to apologize for the new price. The new stocks alone are worth every extra dime you get!
Hoot 😯