a question about barrels…thoughts?
ive been thinking about something with these Lothar Walther barrels…which would be more accurate? the choked, or non choked barrels? they cost the same, so im not worried about cost…and my new rifle’s going to only push around 26 fpe…in .22. so which should i go for? everyone’s thoughts please??
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I believe that BSA has a constant taper bore
Just about to order a .177 barrel blank and can slug it for you lot if you wish
Dave
do you know if bsa still has the no.3 bore size in their .25 barrels?
being said, sure, slug away, im curious.
Living in the UK, I can just buy a BSA blued blank for about $90
I believe that BSA has a constant taper bore
Just about to order a .177 barrel blank and can slug it for you lot if you wish
Dave
not sure of the exact dimension, but i can say that my new bsa, coming from the factory about a month ago, is VERY tight from the start.
the only pellets ive tried thus far that didnt fight me were skenco ultramags, which feel like they were made for it.
are those known to be small? 😕
the problems of inconsistency and breech choking ive noticed too to be primarily reports from the .25s.
doesnt mac use weihrauch barrels?
The first run of USFT’s were HW barrels, I have #27 that has a constant taper HW barrel that was properly shortened to 18″. These are very sweet barrels but can be very pellet/velocity picky. But that said it really likes Crosman Premier Heavy pellets (go figure).
Currently the USFT rifles come with LW barrels unless you get one of the Benchmark two groove barrels.
The LW barrel is more accurate than the HW barrel from what I can tell, but we are talking maybe a 1/16″ to 1/8″ difference at 50 yards. I think the longer barrel (my LW is 24″) has the advantage at distance with any type of wind.
I know my barrel was from a recent batch due to the fact I had to wait for the shipment from LW to show… Who knows when other barrels were actually made due to distributors, rotation of stock, buy out of stock.
And it’s hard for me to believe there isn;t more than one die for producing barrels.
Order directly from LW to get fresh stock, but it still is sounding like a crap shoot (the more I think about it) for anything other than maybe one of their 177 ‘match’ barrels. The 25’s sound like they may be having issues.
BSA was having size issues if IRC, but the odd part was (as Jerry pointed out in that thread) that the die was getting larger when it sounded like it should be getting smaller…
Here are the LW barrels for airguns…
For a .22 shooting pellets, go with the choked barrel. The choke is there to compenstae for less than perfect pellets and can do so because of the pellets basic design.
One thing RC didn’t mention was that LW went through some issues with the riflemakers it supplies not to long ago. Obviously, neither LW or the makers want to air the dirty laundry in public as it will hurt sales. Nonetheless, some word got out and the basic issue was quality control. The fact that several folks on the forums found their new LW barrels to be no better than a Crosman second is not a coincidence. Yes, machining can cause dimensional changes but some of these barrels are 3 different calibers…
syn,
the problems of inconsistency and breech choking ive noticed too to be primarily reports from the .25s.
doesnt mac use weihrauch barrels?
I have had three LW 25 barrels.
1st one was choked on both ends, on the muzzle as usual and on the breech by the manufacturer when it was turned down for the AF breech. I can’t say it was Air Force that did the choking as I got the barrel from RL. Randy replaced the barrel when he found out about my problem. I really do not know if Randy has these done or buys them from AF.
The replacement barrel I use for the cast bullets, it is not restricted at all in the breech area and measures .2549 to the muzzle where it goes down to .251. I have put a lead in the barrel and it does not shoot anything but my cast bullets well.
The third I got used from Tagdagger, I have no idea when it was made. I only use for Kings, and I have not miked it as it shoots fine and do not wish to use anything else in it.
Marvin Mellow casts for his 24 LW barel and his is either .250 or .251.
Bottom line they do vary in internal dimesions depending on the batch. Also as Synopsys has pointed out, how a barrel is turned down can put a choke on it.
Hell I choked a couple shotgun barrels by heating them up and tapping them lightly around the muzzle until I had a very noticalbe choke. If you turn the barrel down quickly putting considerable pressure on it it will alter the interior of the barrel.
I am not machinist, but if it were me putting the breech cut on these AF barrels, I would turn them while very lightly grinding them, use a live center support in the breech, then part off the end of the breech where the live center support touched and put the lead in.
A barrel clampping system to retain a barrel will also reduce the inside diameter of a barrel, a good example of this is the gas block on the early Mini 14’s which used 4 screws to clamp that barrel block on, it reduced diameter from .224 to .222.
I recently put a light on my Ranger 45 using a laser mount that was made to hold a BSA laser and attach to a Weaver base, the laser was the exact diamter as my Ranger barrel and I just JBwelded a weaver base to the Fandyfire light and attach it to the laser mount. But I very lightly clamped it to my Ranger barrel, knowing full well it could reduce diameter of my barrel, and if it was a little loose that was better than a damaged barrel.
I assume that unturned barrel Synopsys has is on one of those good shooting HFT rifles Tim M sells, and is one of the reasons they shoot so well.
Douglas used to sell and got famous for a better quality barrel they advertised as a Airgauged barrel, that is because barrels do vary and they let you know it was consistant because they measured it.
The last expensive barrel I bought was a Krieger 30 inch .458 barrel, I had it cut by them to profile, and it cost a lot, but it would put the first three shots from a 10 shot group into a cloverleaf at 200 yards with cast bullets and blackpowder. Now compared to that Krieger barrel, and FX Slow Twist barrels, LW barrels are very cheap.
And as always, you get what you pay for.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Maybe I have it reversed… 😕 Figures… 🙄
I thought all the slugged ‘problem’ barrels were slugged after machining?
I know someone who builds tack drivers and doesn’t do anything but to face both ends, his opinion was the most recent batches (three in the last nine months) have never been better.
I do know from shooting one of the new LW barrels and shooting AF/LW barrels (six different ones in the last five years) this new one is absolutely amazing! But of course it hasn’t been breech machined for the AF system.
What are the alternatives? BSA has had some size issues. Does Green Mountain sell sub 25cal barrels for airguns? Does HW still produce barrels?
Oh and the good ones have been 17 & 22 caliber barrels… I remember some of the variation barrels were 25 cal right?
I’m thinking I may have to slug my barrel here soon purely out of curiosity! 😀
Speaking of pellet variables, I was testing three different Crosman Premier Heavy die pellets (dies #7, #8 & ‘D’). Even within the same batch they would be different sizes. I’d say there was about three different head sizes in the same die batch and each die batch shot at a different velocities (roughly 10 fps different) for the same pellet. Compare this to the JSB pellets where they were way more consistent than the CPH’s in terms of head sizes… 😯
syn,
its my understanding that the bore diameter in the middle has been fluctuating from as low as .251 all the way to .256. i also understand that conversely to popular belief, profiling for the af platform actually allows the metal to relax OUTWARD. this is secondhand anecdotal info, but also from a highly trusted source.
its not to say that LW has gone to the shitter, but it is a crap shoot as to what your barrel will shoot well. i also understand that their chokes are a bit on the subtle side, so given all the variables, i would recommend a choked LW barrel over unchoked just to err on the side of caution…
This is based on measuring a barrel that has been cut for the AF breech system right?
If you measure a barrel that has been machined it is NOT an accurate measurement of what the barrel was when it left the factory.
Machining the barrel for the AF system will reduce the diameter of the barrel where it is machined and produce the measured effect we see. And after machining none of the breech ends will read the same unless the exact number of cuts and the exact depth, exact cut rate, exact quantity of coolant, etc, etc for each cut was repeated precisely for each barrel.
For example.
Say you make and sell me a piece of tubing that is within 0.0001″ of being straight guaranteed. I heat one end and claim that the tubing is not accurate to 0.0001″ because it now reads 0.001″ out over it’s length. Does this mean your producing shitty tolerances in your tubing now? 😀
According to people who use LW barrels for super accurate shooting the quality has never been better, ever, and LW can’t fill their orders fast enough. I have a brand new LW barrel that shoots pellet in pellet at 50 yards and it has not been machined around it’s diameter. I have yet to see a better shooting barrel.
Yeah- what MS said. Not to mention the variance in pellets. Some can’t even keep their skirts on straight. Choked ftw.
considering lw has been all over the place with measurements lately, id go choked and have a qualified machinist cut a lead in the breech.
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I don’t know, I get the barrel through a middle man distributor and the information listed on their website is brief. A quick email to BSA would clear it up.
Dave