Hoch tapered nose pour mold
The mold arrived today via 1st class mail and I immediately set to work on it.
I cleaned it with alcohol and dried it, then scrubbed it with soap and water and poured hot water on it to dry it again.
Then I sprayed it with Frankford Arsonals mold release and lubed under the sprue plate pivot with Bull Plate lube I got from forum member JDNC.
The mold is unconventional in design, the sprue plate is held on by a thru and thru bolt, the cavity has a stopper in the bottom, that may allow weight adjustment with different stoppers, and of course it is nose pour and tapered from the base of 258 to the driving band of 250.
In theory it allows you to press fit the bullet into the lands and requires no sizing.
I cast 30 slugs from pure lead and got a weight of 111 grains, the advertised weight was 105, but as yet I have no idea what the alloy was for that 105 weight.
I just cast up some more of 40-1 and got a weight of 109 grains.
The big question was whether my 1-14 twist would stablize them.
I shot the pure lead 111 grain bullets at 212 yards, I got a chrony reading from 980 to 998 PFS, which would give me a top FPE of 233 FPE.
I took quite a bit of adjustment with the regulator to get the velocity where I wanted it, I settled on 3750 PSI.
I shot two 5 shot groups, one was 2.25 inches and the other was just under 4 inches. So I would say so far yes the 1-14 twist does stablize the 111 bullets, next I will try the 40-1 and the 25% Lyman #2/75% lead alloy.
The mold is very well made.
The mold requires special handles, altho other brands can be made to fit.
257420’s and Hoch bullets
Yeah I know what the F is that, I ran out of black paintand used white, then while walking away remembered to take a picture. there is a 2.25 in h 212 yard group there under all that mess.
More to follow,
Roachcreek
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Can you tell the difference between your 40:1, and your “pure” lead by looking at it, or scratching it with your fingernail?
?
Yeah, I am not going to shoot that stuff in my rifle, it will escape in to the atmoshpere and then first thing you know, we will all be breathing it, didn’t think of that did you. 😆
Seriously, ask Knifemaker about that gas and other forums, he got kicked off for just suggesting it.
I also did not know N did better in cold weather
It would also help cut down on the moisture I continue to battle here, but I have not checked into the cost of delivery and rental. I do have the regulator for it already.
Or I can just shoot that bullet in warmer weather or closer range like 100 yards, it did alright at 35 degrees, just does not like the 20 degree stuff.
RC
Nitrogen gas, used in the quick chill part of the hog plant, for the hydraulics in the bridge expanders to keep the chain tight, was 70 below 0 in there, used to have to fix all that stuff.
I could just bring my bottles inside at night tho I wonder what a 4500 PSI fill at 20 degrees would read after a 67 degree night.
RC
Do you have access to nitrogen gas? The cold will not affect as bad.
Interestingly enough, I seem to be right on the edge of stablization at 1010 FPS with the 109 grain Hoch bullets.
I cast up some 20-1 bullets today and tried them, the first 5 shots were a powered by a mixture of the warm air in the rifle, which was in the house all night, being fed by a 44 cf tank with a regulator, which had been outside in the low 20’s.
First 5 shots went into a nice group at 1050 FPS/262FPE., but then the cold air took over and things went to shit fast as the velocity dropped to 980 FPS.
In the sunlight I could see the bullerts fly straight for about 130 yards and then start flying eratic. Not the spiral that pellets do, but like a fish darting this way and that.
How much the harder alloy of 20-1 influenced this, as the harder bullets definately go slower, or 25 degree weather by itself was enough.
I switched to the 257420’s and shot several respectable groups right around 1 MOA so the day was not a total loss, just cold as hell.
I also found that the 257420’s were going super sonnic at 1150 and gave quite a crack. I turned down the pressure on the regulator and got them flying at 1120 FPS and the crack disappeared.
Trying to decide if I want to fix the cold temp problem with a 1-10 twist barrel or with a Hoch 85 grain mold.
Good thing about it is that it seldom gets this cold here.
RC
The vertical string gets me back to thinking that two driving bands ,rather than 6 would cut down on friction. Especially in a harder alloy.
Seems it would have to help in our limited air power application.
Always wondered why Jerry’s slugs has so many driving bands.
Mike
RC,
Can you tell the difference between your 40:1, and your “pure” lead by looking at it, or scratching it with your fingernail?
My impression is that 40:1 equates to about BHN7 which is about the same hardness as your typical swaged BP projectile such as the MaxiBalls/Maxi Hunters (still considered to be really soft). Whereas a fingernail will barely leave a mark on BHN9 alloy. Seems that there’s a whole lot going on between BHN7, and BHN9.
Looking forward to seeing the variable factors you mentioned eliminated from your testing, and see what that vertical stringing is all about.
Cedric,
Soft bullets, yes and no.
On the 257420 it seems to like the 25/75% blend of Lyman #2 and pure lead.
On the heavy Hoch bullet it likes 40-1, but I have only fired a few 10 shot groups so far. and only have 7 lbs of 40-1 to play with, Rotometals is sending more tho. 🙂
The 25/75% blend gave me some verticle stringing, it was a 10 shot group that was only 1.5 inches wide, but 5 inches tall, and I know the first thing that comes to mind is being optically centered and yes I am right on the money at 200 yards.
And I only cast a dozen or so of the 25/75 blend, so perhaps as the mold heated up, it may have given slightly larger bullets and that caused the stringing? Or the limited air pressure a PCP gives is not consistant for hard bullets from shot to shot? Could be a lot of things, and I could have been me.
If you want to see something impressive, plug a BC of .380 into chairgun, that is what Handloads .com gives for this bullet, and I listed it as a spitzer because the metplate is so damn tiny, and then look at the penetration and maximum range, hell I will tell you what it is, it is 24 inches of penetration at 300 yards and a maximum range of 5500 yards, that is about 10 times further than a King at 900 FPS.
Now on the rubber bulb, I have it just far enough down the barrel to get a fill attachment on the gun, I am going to move it forward a little to play with it.
And my wife wants to know where your wife got the limsaver that fits on you? 😛
RC
Dem bullets are PURDY RC.
So RC, is your gun liking the bullets a bit softer than harder? Seems like it. And that’s exactly what i was telling Marvin before he rudely replied to my post as though i’ve never tested bullets before that have different BHNs. RJ guns also seems to like PURE lead. I haven’t tried 40-1 yet. Maybe my gun would LOVE them. Maybe not.
But anyways, so you installed the “RUBBER BULB” already?
Pure lead is just fine RJ.
I am sizing to 257 and I believe that is what your sizing to also?
Thanks
RC
Rc pm me ur address ill get u some sent out. Ill size 10 with my sizer and leave the rest unsized. They shoot ok for me but they r heavy bullets for my gun. I get alot og kick from them. Also i cast with pure lead. Ill see if i have anything a bit harder.
Butcher,
I don’t really think at our velocties they will frament, but hey, not owning a cast bullet company what would I know?
I just ordered another 35 lbs of 20-1, and will cut it one for one with pure lead to get 40-1.
The harder alloy gave me verticle stringing, and a high and low spread of about 30 FPS, perhaps just too hard for the weight and power combination. The pure lead did okay, 2.25 for 5 shots, it is just harder to cast with.
I did a good cleaning on the rifle before shooting today and this group was shot # 41 to #51 on that clean barrel, and as you can see it could not have been all that dirty. The first 32 shots were pure lead BTW and the first 7 of those had no lube.
Perhaps the benefit of Firelapping.
One other thing, I had the Limbsaver rubber bulb on the barrel.
I just checked the penetration chart on Chairgun, at 300 yards, it will penetrate 24 inches of flesh. 😯
RC
I find it staggering that just 6 months ago, someone posting about a 248fpe .25-anything putting 9 of 10 into .90 moa at 212 yards you would be hearing almost no response other than “BullShit!!!”.
Now the mega-long range .257 conversations are almost….casual 😯
Loving the alloy experimentation……can’t wait to see what lead/alloy is the king of long range .257 accuracy/leading control in your guys’ rifles. Wouldn’t mind seeing a little critter hit with a high velocity .257 linotype hollowpoint (or even solid) just to see if it “fragments”.
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Butcher,
They are both pretty darn soft, and will both scratch/gouge easily with my finger nail.
The 40-1 bullets in the Hoch seem to weigh 1 grain less than pure lead.
RC