First focal plane vs Second

🙄

Yes, I am, No Chinese optics shit of any kind on my guns!

Your range finding system is crude at best, the fly in your ointment is……Losing the sight picture to look on the outside of the scope @ the magnification ring, reading the ring setting, and now recovering the sight picture to complete the shot! Looking at those Nikon’s I recommend you install a rear view mirror so you can actually see and read the power/yardage reading from behind Nikon scope. Wow, that’s piss poor engineering.

BTW, Vortex/Zeiss rifle scopes magnification marking are on the rear of the adjustment ring and can be actually seen/read from behind the scope, which has no need for a rear view mirror. Damn fine engineering wouldn’t you agree?

Now for a short education in real world reticle range finding. The system I use doesn’t require taking your eye off of the sight picture, but it does require remembering your bullet’s drop or range card. My example target will be a 20×20 cm white square. Looking through your scope at the target, it fits perfectly between two mil dots (center to center) I instantly know the range is 200 meters and having my drop chart in my head, execute the firing solution, having never, ever lost the sight picture.

Another example with same target, you count ten centimeters between two mil dots on the 20×20 cm target, range to target is 100 meters, consult your minds range card, execute the firing solution, again, never, ever losing the sight picture.

I don’t consider this method to use any math, but the formula is…….count the number of centimeters between two mil dots on a target of known dimensions, works in the horizontal or vertical plain, doesn’t matter. Place a zero to the right of number of centimeters counted, this number is meters to target. So if you have a need to prove this range finding method here is my solution.

One mil equals one centimeter at 10 meters. Place a centimeter ruler out to 10 meters and look for yourself.

I’m not being rude either, just giving a little more contrast to this sight picture 😆

Here’s my opinion – IF you can afford it and IF you have mils @ 5 yard increments taped to a scope cover & IF you have time to laser your target = FFP is a great choice.

Most folks can’t afford one…….even at ‘Only’ $900. WTF!!! That’s a lot of scratch Dude.

My Mini SASS is wearing a Nikon Pro Staff 3-9×40 with stanard BDC reticle and an ARD. Total cost = $210.

Here’s a prime example of how you can effectively rangefind a ‘Target of Known Size’:
The subtension circles @ 9x = 2″, so at 3x they = 6″.
A deer is typically 18″ brisket to shoulder.
If I subtend the deer @ 3x its 300 yards away.
If I subtend it at 9x its 900 yards away.
The power setting number just happens to coincide with the yardage of a deer!!! Wow! Who would’ve imagined that?!?
Damn fine engineering.

Don’t know the size of the human terrorist target in height?
No Problem! The human head is typically 9″ from chin to the top.
You do the math.

I like my SFP’s and I will take a Nikon Pro Staff any day over some cheap BSA or Barska shit.

Educate yourself – unless you work for Vortex, then you get a pass.

It sounds like you have a bias in Chinese goods – I’m just sayin’.

I concur. Sometimes one doesn’t know if they will like the technology and buy cheap first to gain experience and later upgraded to better equipment.

That is a gem of a statement.
Enjoy FFP garbage rather than higher end SFP?

Enjoy FFP garbage rather than higher end SFP? This is your statement, not mine, don’t put words in my mouth! You missed my point obviously, my statement was contrast to buying a higher end FFP . Where did I state you, or anyone else should buy anything, the point you missed should have been anyone can buy FFP on any budget. 😎

Enjoy what you can afford, one mans garbage….is another’s treasure! I didn’t recommend “you” or anyone else buy garbage. 😈

IME, CarsonRatSniper’s points are right on.
The value of adjustable magnification is close range target acquisition.
At LR,particularly with how much pellets drop, the ability to halve the hash mark values a virtue.
Fixed SFP won’t give you either of those options.
I’ve the the Vortex 4-16×50 SFP, as well as a Hawke 10X Sidewinder with half mil reticle.
I rarely shoot less than 50 yards and don’t have issue with the Vortex when I do with the AO turned all the way back.
It has raised stops at 16/1X, 8/2X,5.3/3X, and 4/4X.
Plenty of adjustment on tap as well if you want to dial in correction.
Whatever you choose becoming intimately familiar with it will be the key to success.

Good point – it was purchased as a deployment package and that’s what was on it. If you never looked through USO glass you wouldn’t understand anyway – the edge to edge clarity is amazing.
I got sidetracked on the main point.

FFP isn’t worthless. They are very good Scopes. It goes back to my very first statement – it depends on application.
Obviously we’re talking Airguns, but my point still stands.

Why do you feel an FFP scope is worth the substabtial difference in cost?
Where is your real world application of the use of the reticle maintaining rangefinding capability throughout its magnification range?
At what magnification setting do you typically have it set on as you’re hunting at at what times will you up it to Max power?

That is the only rifle I own that has an FFP scope. All of my others are SFP, are are mostly Leupold VXII’s.

An extremely good value is the Leupold Mk4 4.5-14×40 with target knobs and a mil dot for $700.
List price show the Mil Dot reticle for $930, but my dealer can get them in for $700.
You get Mk4 glass, a Mil Dot reticle and a scope that weighs only 16 ounces – not to mention Leupolds’ lifetime warranty.

How would you justify spending another $1000 just so your reticle magnifies with your power setting?

I’m not starting an argument here, so no need to attack my personal choices or take what I’ve said out of context………..but seriously – what is the point of FFP other than marketing?

I want to hear real world data and usage – not what’s been read or because its ‘just better’ because it cost more.

Originally the M40’s were outfitted with Unertl fixed 10x Scopes. The originals (serviced now by US Optics) are very expensive – more so than the $2800 my scope cost.
BUT – that’s not why I bought their 1.8-10×44.
If the theater of operations changes suddenly from long range to under 100 yards on multiple targets, rapidly changing conditions or God forbid CQB, the ability to widen the field of view for multiple target engagement for your primary is a very critical option to have available.

So, the variable certainly has its place on my rifle. FFP is pointless because under those circumstances combat effective is point of aim out to 300 yards.
The mil dots wont be use for ranging in closer than that.

BUT – mil dots WILL be used by the Airgun hunter for holdover (not rangefinding). The target size variables are too great for accurate ranging. You can use a typical game measurement, but you may be off by a few yards which is critical in airgunning.
The best thing to do is use a rangefinder.

Then you’re back to Max power setting to use your holdover marks.
If its close enough not to have to use them, you’re probably inside of 50 yards anyway which means your either zeroed or very, very close to it.

These are just my perceptions. To each his own.
🙂