Ranger 45 Help
Well it’s been raining for two weeks around here and the first chance I got to shoot my Ranger was Saturday. I had some 370 gr. bullets cast with WW sized .452 so I gave them a try. First one out the 28″ tube at 4500 psi (yeah I like to start at the top and work my way down 😆 ) clocked 814 fps over my oehler sky screens at 12 ft. Quite depressing as I was hoping for 850 based on RC’s luck with his 408+ weights. I shot about six and they grouped about 3 inches at 100 yds which added to my depression, not to mention after waiting over 2 1/2 yrs for this rifle my damned shoebox decides it needs a rebuild. 👿
I have some of these cast 40:1 at 375 grs. dropping at .453-.454 and will try them without sizing. I hope they shoot better and hopefully get a little more velocity. I’ll try these with a 4300 fill. Maybe I’m getting some valve lock at 4500. BTW, of course I was using the high cocking position.
Any input appreciated,
JD
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I use a Caldwell bag in front, a old leather coat rolled up in back and a firm grip on the forearm and pistol grip.
On my Haley I use a bipod in front and the Caldwell in the rear, mainly because it is handy and gives me the height I need to shoot over the grapes here to my steel target, but it does as well or better with the same technique I use on the Ranger.
What Tofazfou says about the barrel being clean is a fundamental truth with cast bullet guns, they lead badly unless your barrel has been polished very well, TJ barrels especially, I fire lap mine.
RC
Don’t own a Ranger but airguns aren’t that complicated to me at all. Especially big bores.
1. Clean the hell outta the barrel
2. Check muzzle crown using the q-tip method
3. Visually check for imperfections in the bore while its clean and shiny
4. Lower that pressure by a bit. Start lower and not higher. You are getting valve lock to some degree. Airguns don’t work that way.
5. Find your most consistent fill pressure to fps spread using a chrony
6. After all that, like rc said, try 3 shot groups to see if your gun is hold sensitive. Hold loose, shoot a group. Hold tighter, shoot a group. REPEAT.
The list goes on.
Also, just like a powder Burner, the gun is gonna dictate to you what it likes and how it likes it. In other words, it might only be accurate with said bullet on MEDIUM power and 3800 psi fills.
There is another gentleman who only filled to 2500 psi and shot the gun on low power with some OUTSTANDING accuracy. He has a hunting post on here somewhere with his gun and hogs on that power level.
My buddy up north shot his ranger on low power and 3000 psi fills while using 230 gr 45 acp (452) Government HARDBALL and swore they went into a ragged 45 cal hole at 100 yards and that was a 3 shot group from the same fill!
I’m sure your gun is a tackdriver (for a big bore), we just gotta see what she likes. It’s brand new and you’ve got a lot to figure out with it. AND THAT’S THE FUN PART!
Need a little clarification on the firm grip. I noticed that way early on this post it was noted the the Ranger and apparently other big bores like a firm grip. Can you please give me more details. I am shooting my Extreme 457 by resting it on a Caldwell Rock delux at the front and a caldwell bag at the rear. I do not grip the forearm but usually let it float and snug the butt plate to my shoulder. Are you saying that a tight grip of the forearm will tighten the groups? I’m getting some good groups from time to time but not amazing groups as some guys report for this gun. Need some advise here…..thanks.
4100 when the springs are new, mostly 3800 now.
x
I know what our talking about with the bore rider designs. The Lyman 457125, a direct copy of the 45/70/500 military bullet, was such a pain in the ass.
If you were not careful seating it or sizing it you would expand the nose and it would not chamber, real pain during a match.
RC
RC, What pressure are you now using with your 408’s ?
JD
CORRECTION
What the hell was I thinking? A .450 bore with shallower grooves would still have .450″ bore, with smaller groove diameter.
Too much thinking. 😳
I might add, I don’t really care for bore riding bullets from standard moulds because its so damned hard to find one that will cast a nose size that will fit any given bore size (with a given caliber and diff alloys). So that has always left me with custom moulds. IMHO if a nose is loose in the bore it doesn’t perform very well. How in the hell did I get way out here? 🙄
I have to agree that a .458 groove would probably be the best choice. Really in my case it doesn’t matter as I’m a caster from back some 35 yrs and have a many moulds from both.
I understand Dan’s concept with the round ball and pistol bullets, there weight class and all. I just don’t think they’re any easier to locate than the .458 stuff for the non caster.
Here is where I am lost. I don’t know anything about barrel design for air rifles. Dan had these barrel liners made to his specs with only .0025″ groove depth and a .447″ bore. Is there a reason for these spec’s? I don’t know but if so would a .458 barrel need these shallow grooves? If so any bore riding bullet moulds I have probably would be loose as hell on the nose and wouldn’t shoot worth a crap. If the standard .458 bore is working I would prefer it over some bastard size groove and bore diameter. If they’re is a great difference in another design for air I would be open to owed earring new moulds of course.
I would love to try paper patch bullets but don’t know if the grooves are deep enough for the lands to cut the paper. This is where the standard barrel would work better I think. RC may know. Dan advised me that he had a customer that patches and is getting approx 150 fps greater velocities if I remember correctly.
JD
My bullets range from 250grn up to 515grn . It loves them all. RC have u thought about a .457 barrel for your gun. The molds r endless and from my experience they all shoot moa or better. I’ve been looking to get some 452 molds to offer bullets on my site for all y’all XP owners. If I do I’m gonna need some testers to shoot for me unless I buy a barrel.
RJ,
My Ranger has never shot good with hard bullets.
Dan designed these rifles to shoot well with off the shelf cast pistol bullets, a big mistake as far as I am concerned, they would have been better off with a .458 bore, like Jack used, using 30-1 with the lighter, 350 to 420 grain 45/70 bullets of 40-1, 30-1 and 20-1.
I have never found a off the shelf bullet that works well in my Ranger, save the 452 pistol bullets for your 45 ACP and 45 LC, and the ww for the molds for them.
RC
RJ,
My Ranger has never shot good with hard bullets.
Dan designed these rifles to shoot well with off the shelf cast pistol bullets, a big mistake as far as I am concerned, they would have been better off with a .458 bore, like Jack used, using 30-1 with the lighter, 350 to 420 grain 45/70 bullets of 40-1, 30-1 and 20-1.
I have never found a off the shelf bullet that works well in my Ranger, save the 452 pistol bullets for your 45 ACP and 45 LC, and the ww for the molds for them.
RC
Not trying to step on toes , I’m no pro, and mine is not an XP but a Haley. They use the same barrel but a different diameter. I have shot all different lead hardness and see no difference in accuracy. Now the smaller diameter bullets I see a big dirrerence in groups . Like I said that’s from my gun. My gun in 457 loves all lead and all bullets no matter the weight lead or any other variables. Hell maybe I just love my gun. Polish the barrel good and try all alloys it will probly smooth out and shoot them all good.
JD,
Lately I have been shooting 20-1 thru it, because that is what I use in the Ranger, but I am not so sure 30-1 was not just a bit better.
You thoughts on technique at 50 are correct I think.
RC
RC,
The 6 or so shots I fired were two shot groups. As a matter of fact I shot two pair that looked like a 3″ square then on the next pair one dropped 4″ below that square group. Beats the hell out of me.
I want this rifle to shoot its best at high power and heavy bullets. Like you I want to hunt with it and if I didn’t want the power I wouldn’t have bought the Ranger. I will follow your advice in reference to 50 yds.
I think I’ll take my tank setup with my booster to the bench and leave it hooked up to the rifle and after each two shots top off the pressure then close the tank. That way I’m not shooting regulated but cab easily top off the gun.
What alloy did you finally settle with?
JD
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Rain, rain, rain, maybe I’ll get to shoot sometime
Tof,
In reference to barrel condition, I was really worried about that as I was waiting for my rifle as RC sent his first barrel back. It’s a PITA to clean from the muzzle and a greater PITA to remove the barrel to clean from the breech. But after cleaning I found a pretty smooth barrel. As for the crown it was very sharp. I pushed a paper towel patch through to feel for roughness and/or lead and found none.
RC, those bullets I sent you sometime back I said they were 30:1 but I think I was wrong, they’re 40:1. I’m going to use the remainder I have cast my next shooting session unsized and as suggested try lower pressures and work up in shot pairs and pressure to find a sweet spot. At 3800 are you using high or medium hammer setting?
I ordered another Lee sizing die (452) so I would have one to open up if needed. This may be something for another thread but I’ll share it here. I have read in the past about some having difficulties enlarging sizing dies because they’re so hard. A barrel maker give me this tip many years ago and I’ll pass it on. Take an old bore brush smaller than the die somewhat and chuck in a drill motor. Wrap some steel wool 000-0000 around the brush (I turn on the drill to do this). Add JB bore paste and have at it. Doesn’t take long. If you do this in your hands it will not egg shape anything.
JD