Talon SS with 18in or 24in barrel…help !
Need help deciding whether to go to the 18 or 24 inch barrel. My big issue is the total length of the gun after the addition of a TT shroud. I want the extra FPS and FPE but still need it to be fairly quiet. Any input in helping me decide what the best solution would be is welcomed !! Also, the caliber is .22 and I do an even mix of hunting and target shooting. I want to be able to accurately reach out a bit further than what I can with the 12in barrel.
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It depends….. 😕
If you change ONLY the barrel and not change the top hat, power wheel setting, tank pressure, etc. you will use the same amount of air regardless of caliber.
If my math is correct, going from a .22 18.1 pellet shooting 875fps to a .25 25.4 pellet, you speed will drop to around 740fps.
If you optimize the velocity for a reasonable performance level, you will reduce your shot count when going from .22 to .25 by about 40%. (kinda an educated guess based on faded memory of earlier testing.)
An option to consider is installing a regulator. I have a Altaros on my .22 and a Dyotat100 custom built reg and tank on my .25.
Personally, if I was to install a .25 18” barrel, (and I may after Christmas just to play with) I’d strongly consider using a regulator.
My .22 Talon is the only “virgin” gun I own (if the camera mount doesn’t count) and would be the recipient of the modification.
The yardage I was talking about “stacking” at is the distance I’m able to shoot in my backyard. In the field I have dropped pigeons and squirrels at 50yds+ (guestamation). In fact I have taken pigeons out at my father in laws farm from distances I wouldn’t have thought about shooting from with my other airguns. The “close” shooting I was talking of is the only distance I am able to know exactly the range and repeat it time and again.
You mentioned putting a condor valve in the talon ss. I really don’t want to do that at this point. Air consumption is a top priority for me. I first looked at Airforce guns because of the massive amount of shots I can get off a fill. After doing the research and learning about the customization abilities (caliber,barrel length etc) and quality of Airforce airguns I purchased one. I got tired of counting my shots in the woods and feeling bound to a pump for my disco. With my Talon SS I can spend an afternoon in the woods and not worry about how much air I’ve used. I still use a hand pump so at this point consuming more air isn’t an option. Speaking of that will going to .25 MAKE me use more air ? I currently leave my power set at 8 and I’m very pleased with power and accuracy down range and shot count. I really don’t want to rock the boat in regards to either of those.
no one mentioned it, but it is simple and inexpensive to put a condor valve in the talon or SS. And you can push the .25 over a grand if you want to with it. But that’s not the way to get accuracy! I like minn at around 890-920 fps.
.22 -vs- .25 accuracy? The .22 is just as accurate as the .25 at short range. You said somthing about stacking at very close range.( Yes, I know you didn’t put it that way, but to us here on the tag, that is extreemly “CLOSE” Range.) 😳 😆 But at longer ranges. Expecially in the real world, The .22 can’t in any way hold a candle to the .25. The .25 at the same fps will drop less, and wind will effect it less. It is due to the higher BC of the .25 compaired to the .22.
Now about that close range. We want it to stack a 50 yards and shoot under an inch at 100 yards. Not just 20. Hell, at 20 we can just throw a damed rock at it! 😆 😉
We would be embarassed to shoot a critter at 20! Damed near un-sporting with these guns! 😆
Airgunsoftulsa…Nice to know. I’ve emailed with Neil quite a bit over the last couple days. He seems very confident either one of his 6in or 8in ldc’s will do exactly what I want it to. Just have to place my order.
ldp…yeah emailing with Neil lead me to belive he knows exactly what he’s doin !! He was very patient with me too. Being new to all this I had a lot of questions. Quick responses as well. Seems like a great guy to do business with.
Tshaw you have nothing to worry about any machinist worth anything will have no problem making the ldc correctly and it will line up as it should. I would think Neil Clague has done one or two before and knows what he is doing 
My Talon is one of the early frames. I have a Neil Clague (NC) air stripper on mine and the air stripper is 8″ in length. The OAL of the gun is 41″ with the airstripper.
VERY QUIET!!! Only noise is mechanical.
Easy to wield in the brush. LIght weight.
Not sure what you mean. What would I need turned ? As I understand an 18inch barrel just drops in. Who’s NG ?
Also Neil Clague said he could make me an effective shroud at the length I desire. Just takes time. Can you be a bit clearer please. I want all the info I can get.
Not sure you will like the 18 in a SS, Stock LCD might not match up, mine was about 1/2 inch off. NG might turn you one to fit. :1:
Wow guys I’m so grateful for all your help. Glad I found/joined this forum !! I look forward to being able to provide some knowledge sometime instead of just soaking it up !
OK, had to dig up some old Excel data, found the following: 25 Cal JSB 25.39gr 18″ barrel, Talon valve before any mods to it, PW set at 7, fill pressure 2800 PSI, 10 shot average 815.50 FPS, for 37.5 ft.lbs. with a standard deviation of 16 FPS. American Bloodnob valve, 2900 PSI fill: 25 cal JSB 25.39 gr, Average velocity 962 FPS, for 52.19 ft.lbs, and EunJin 43.2 gr, average velocity 802.40 FPS, for 61.78 ft.lbs. also with the 18″ barrel, this setup also used the Bloodnob spring, and the PW set at 0. Hope that helps everyone out at least a little. I sold the Bloodnob valve, and will be replacig it with either a stock Condor valve, or one of the fine valves from one of our makers here. So I guess this provides some solid data for the 25 caliber in an 18 inch barrel.
Casey
P.S. Yes, I also measured the amount the barrel sticks out of my SS frame, and it is indeed 3/4″ as posted above.
Idp…thanks ! I’m emailing with Neil Clague and he asked me exactly how much of the 18inch barrel sticks out of a talon ss frame.
I am pretty sure the talon and the talon ss use the same valve. I dont know if the .25 in the talon uses the same valve as .177 & .22. I have an 18″ .25 from my condor ss if i get around to it i can just put one of my talon tanks on it and see what it does if no one else has already done it.
Tshaw the 18″ barrel sticks out less than 3/4 of an inch from the talon ss frame. The talon ss frame measure 17 3/8″ and the chamber end of the barrel protrudes from the frame slightly and i would guess that to be 1/8″ so it should be 1/2″ on the muzzle end sticking out.
I’m assuming the talon and the talon ss have the same valve ? I’m not sure about all the specifics of the guns. I’m new to this forum and just getting my feet wet. There is soo much information in this forum to take in. I love it !!
Everyone is so helpful and knowledgeable. Great stuff people ! Also, anyone have a precise measurement on how far an 18inch barrel sticks out of a talon ss frame ?
You might want to hear from some guys with some Talon valved 18″ two-five cal experience. I’m sure a Talon valve will push a .25 cal 25g+ pellet out of an 18″ barrel but to what extent?
Can a guy get 900fps (maybe more 😀 ) with a Talon valve? And a decent number of shots???
Anyone here with experience with a Talon valve, .25 – 18″ barrel?? Good – bad – or otherwise???
I don’t know that’s why I’m askin’ 😀
I did try a .25 12″ barrel with a CONDOR valve and sold the barrel after about 30 shots over the chrony. LOUD 😯 and a lot of air wasted. Something like 6 or 7 shots no matter what the top hat and power wheel settings were. For me it sucked.
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Thanks for all the info. I need to research what a regulator does. I really haven’t gotten into that kind of stuff. Just kinda scratching the surface of easy things I can do to up the performance of my gun. Now I’m off to do some research 😀