Q:

My definition of accuracy with regard to a clean barrel

I like to think of myself as a perfectionist. Substandard performance isn’t what I settle for when it comes to my hobbies. In the case of shooting air rifles, my standard of accuracy is very rigid. My definition of accuracy is, well, same-pellet hole accurate with a high number of shots in a group. I am unwilling to accept a half-inch group or a group which displays clustered pellet holes that, although are dime-sized as a group, have some pellets shooting to a different hole other than the one the very first pellet made. I have been shooting for a long time now, trying to perfect my shooting technique, paying very cautious attention to everything that influences a perfect shot. To date, I perceive that I’ve shot over 50,000 pellets with all the airguns I’ve owned. And with each pellet that disappointed me I’d always wanted to figure out what may have caused it to land where I didn’t want it to (this is in perfect, no-wind conditions, and shooting from a bench rest). It was quite a journey…until recently.

Skipping all the other things which probably doesn’t matter to me now and to keep things short, I’ve always been intrigued and dumbfounded at the same time that a cleaned barrel has to be re-leaded in order to shoot accurately. Well, I had gone that road but wasn’t too satisfied with the accuracy I got with a re-leaded barrel. Yes, accuracy was good, but it was not to my standard. As I said above, I consider accurate PINPOINT ACCURATE. I always wanted to hold on to the idea, which makes perfect sense to me, that a barrel should be clean in order to achieve this level of accuracy. Then one day, I saw these videos:

In this first video of FX Airguns, note that Mr. FX himself, after making a barrel, goes straight to testing it for the first time without any leading of the barrel first (skip to 7:24 of the video).

In this second video of a precision competition Feinwarkbau air rifle, note again that the barrel is shooting one-hole groups without it going through a leading process first (skip to 1:10 of the video).

Watching those sections of the two videos made perfect sense to me with regard to demonstrating what a properly built airgun can do in terms of pure accuracy in perfect conditions (no wind, indoor shooting, eliminating human error, non-deformed pellets, etc.) without needing to be leaded. With all due respect, I just think that the process of re-leading a barrel after it has been cleaned just introduces an uncontrollable variable. It is very difficult to gauge — that with each layer of leading or seasoning from the pellets as each one is fired — when accuracy will begin to be altered.

Let’s say you’re shooting your 100th shot on paper after re-leading, and given the POI is consistent you go on a hunt. The day is perfect: zero wind, you spot your quarry motionless, and it’s exactly ranged at your rifle’s zero point. You aim at your quarry feeling confident that you think the pellet is going to land where the crosshairs are at when you take the shot. With good technique you take the shot only to see your quarry jump a few feet, stop, laugh at you, then run away. You wonder to yourself, WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED? It may have been that at that time the 100th shot you took prior to the hunt added a layer of lead that altered the trajectory of the pellet a bit, enough for a clean miss.

With all other things considered, to me, controllable accuracy (or very close to it) is priority number one. I want to feel confident that each pellet I launch out of my air rifle is going to hit right where I intend it to, and that’s exactly where the crosshairs are on the target. On the subject of controlling accuracy relative to the airgun’s barrel, I want to make sure that when the pellet has left the barrel I ensured that I paved the way to enable it to land exactly where I want it to.

I decided to put this conception to the test. To keep things close to controllable by me, I waited to shoot on an absolutely windless day and via benchrest. Prior to shooting, I cleaned my Cricket’s barrel before shooting the groups. Also, to keep the barrel as clean as possible for at least 50 shots (my cut-off number) I ran two patches soaked in Break Free CLP through the barrel after the 50th shot. The distance the groups were shot was at 27 yards. Below is the result.

The group below shows a 47-shot group with JSB 14.35 grain pellets lightly lubed with Break Free CLP (pellet speed is 755 FPS average).

The next group below is a 44-shot group with JSB 15.89 grain pellets lightly lubed with Break Free CLP (pellet speed is 720 FPS average).

As you can see, both groups show only one hole slightly larger than the pellet beside them. This leads me to conclude that keeping the barrel as very close to its original state of cleanliness enabled me to control original POI much more through “programmed cleaning” than from settling on a different, uncontrollable POI through re-leading of the barrel. I believe that through re-leading each layer of deposited lead is enough to change POI to a point in which, although the pellets are clustered together, the pellets may land left, right, up, or down next to each other.

The gun responsible

Of course, all of this may possibly be all just mumbo jumbo. Or, the Cricket may just very well be the best air rifle on the planet. What are your thoughts?

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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)

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A Kennedy???? :rofl:

Zonk

:8:

HEy , your supposed to light the match , not shoot the head off. :biggrinn:

quote Sir Ville:

quote synopsys:

There´s only one bad thing with the leading and it´s the fact it´s outside of the shooters controll – the part how much/how thick the optimal layer of lead is before it gets too thick.

EXACTLY!

I just got done with another round of shooting following my “now-adopted routine” of keeping my gun’s barrel clean. I now am getting the clue that the point-of-impact after a barrel cleaning is the default or true POI, not the one created through barrel re-leading or seasoning. With that, please note that I have never adjusted the scope since after frequent cleaning. It is evident that the Crickets, at least with my rifle, have a rifling that really snugs the pellet, so it is imperative that I clean out the leading to ensure that it shoots with pinpoint accuracy. Below are photos of today’s shoot on a windless day.

The two photos below show a 60-SHOT GROUP with the gun completely benchrested using my Caldwell 7-Rest. :8: One could qualify that if a rifle could shoot this accurate with a clean barrel all the time at 30 yards it could shoot as accurately also a bit further out. I just don’t have access to a distance beyond 30 yards at the moment.

And just for kicks, below is a photo of a single shot of taking off the head of a match stick at 30 yards – one shot, one headless matchstick.

That sort of neglect should be illegal. A clean bore / clean gun works and shoots (normally) as intented. Airgun barrels don´t need to deal with powder residue (which contains among other things glass and sand) and copper but they do deal with lead, moisture (mostly PCP´s) and also with grease residue (springers with different kinds of grease and PCP´s with silicone grease) and so they need cleaning too.

Maybe that shoot the bore clean lingers from muzzle loading days.

i had the chance to check out an absolutely pristeen 1903 -a3 springfield in a pawn shop,a while back , wow, it was nice,

i pulled the bolt and turned the gun up to the lights, and damn!!! , i could barely see thru the bore.

i asked the guy if he had a gun cleaning rod and he brought me a small kit, i put a jag and small patch on , and it barely maid it down the bore, and small pile of rust came out with it. 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯 😯

I was basically heart broken that this fine old rifle had been abused in such a way , no one had pushed an oil patch down the bore, and let it sit for years

quote synopsys:

I totally get what you are saying and if your hunting situation is under 30 yards then there is no reason to change anything. 😉 🙂

I shoot competitively, 50 shots isn’t even a match and 30 yards is only halfway to the farthest target. I have had barrels that work best clean and other that work best leaded.

Leading and accuracy depends on the barrel, how tight it is, how loose it is and which pellets are being shot.

I have a Benchmark 22 barrel that shoots lights out at 50 yards (0.2″ five shot groups, unsorted except checking for bent skirts, unlubed JSB 13.43g r pellets) when cleaned it will drop 50-80fps off the velocity, as it leads in the velocity rises until it hits the proper leaded ratio and the velocity stays the same for the next five hundred shots and more (it’s still accurate, right to left but the poi rises with the velocity until it stabilizes). At 30 yards it’s pellet on pellet, but 30 yards is nothing, even some of the ‘bad’ pellets I have shoot tiny groups at 30 yards, when shot at 50 things change CONSIDERABLY.

The Benchmark barrel has been polished and has competed in international and national benchrest matches with excellent results, it is proven and is also feared.

Analyze a bunch ten shot groups at 50 yards, clean and leaded if you want to look at consistency and accuracy, even bad pellets with bent skirts shoot well at 30 yards. Shoot indoors if you can! No blaming the wind when things go wring! 😆

I’m waiting on another special 22 barrel for competition and looking forward to finding out how it shoots clean and leaded. I can;t say who is making it as I have been sworn to secrecy. :confusedn:

The best thing is to figure out what each barrel you have likes and work within those parameters (which I believe is what your op was saying even though it wasn’t said specifically). :8:

That´s about it. Not much to add there. There´s only one bad thing with the leading and it´s the fact it´s outside of the shooters controll – the part how much/how thick the optimal layer of lead is before it gets too thick. One learns to know his Gun and the window of accuracy it has though.
The old wife´s tale about never clean your barrel is just Hogwash nevertheless . My Father goes by the ancient rule and always tells me : “You shoot the bore clean, Boy” but i stopped listening to him some 25 years ago … :butkick:

I believe so…

Not really an FT barrel but a benchrest barrel used for FT. 😉

quote synopsys:

I totally get what you are saying and if your hunting situation is under 30 yards then there is no reason to change anything. 😉 🙂

I shoot competitively, 50 shots isn’t even a match and 30 yards is only halfway to the farthest target. I have had barrels that work best clean and other that work best leaded.

Leading and accuracy depends on the barrel, how tight it is, how loose it is and which pellets are being shot.

I have a Benchmark 22 barrel that shoots lights out at 50 yards (0.2″ five shot groups, unsorted except checking for bent skirts, unlubed JSB 13.43g r pellets) when cleaned it will drop 50-80fps off the velocity, as it leads in the velocity rises until it hits the proper leaded ratio and the velocity stays the same for the next five hundred shots and more (it’s still accurate, right to left but the poi rises with the velocity until it stabilizes). At 30 yards it’s pellet on pellet, but 30 yards is nothing, even some of the ‘bad’ pellets I have shoot tiny groups at 30 yards, when shot at 50 things change CONSIDERABLY.

The Benchmark barrel has been polished and has competed in international and national benchrest matches with excellent results, it is proven and is also feared.

Analyze a bunch ten shot groups at 50 yards, clean and leaded if you want to look at consistency and accuracy, even bad pellets with bent skirts shoot well at 30 yards. Shoot indoors if you can! No blaming the wind when things go wring! 😆

I’m waiting on another special 22 barrel for competition and looking forward to finding out how it shoots clean and leaded. I can;t say who is making it as I have been sworn to secrecy. :confusedn:

The best thing is to figure out what each barrel you have likes and work within those parameters (which I believe is what your op was saying even though it wasn’t said specifically). :8:

Are these Benchmark barrels availible in .25 blanks? Probably not as they are for ft but thought id ask…..

I totally get what you are saying and if your hunting situation is under 30 yards then there is no reason to change anything. 😉 🙂

I shoot competitively, 50 shots isn’t even a match and 30 yards is only halfway to the farthest target. I have had barrels that work best clean and other that work best leaded.

Leading and accuracy depends on the barrel, how tight it is, how loose it is and which pellets are being shot.

I have a Benchmark 22 barrel that shoots lights out at 50 yards (0.2″ five shot groups, unsorted except checking for bent skirts, unlubed JSB 13.43g r pellets) when cleaned it will drop 50-80fps off the velocity, as it leads in the velocity rises until it hits the proper leaded ratio and the velocity stays the same for the next five hundred shots and more (it’s still accurate, right to left but the poi rises with the velocity until it stabilizes). At 30 yards it’s pellet on pellet, but 30 yards is nothing, even some of the ‘bad’ pellets I have shoot tiny groups at 30 yards, when shot at 50 things change CONSIDERABLY.

The Benchmark barrel has been polished and has competed in international and national benchrest matches with excellent results, it is proven and is also feared.

Analyze a bunch ten shot groups at 50 yards, clean and leaded if you want to look at consistency and accuracy, even bad pellets with bent skirts shoot well at 30 yards. Shoot indoors if you can! No blaming the wind when things go wring! 😆

I’m waiting on another special 22 barrel for competition and looking forward to finding out how it shoots clean and leaded. I can;t say who is making it as I have been sworn to secrecy. :confusedn:

The best thing is to figure out what each barrel you have likes and work within those parameters (which I believe is what your op was saying even though it wasn’t said specifically). :8:

quote spinj:

Demp, have you tried shooting at least past 40 shots for a group? When you have the chance, please try it out. I’d be interested to see the results with a leaded barrel. I’ve tried it before but was unsatisfied. I’m going after repeatable point-of-impact – pellet on top of pellet repeatability.

I usually did 10 groups of 10 shots each=100 pellets at each 10 yd distance from 10-150 yds. That’s 1500 pellets a session.
I did same with 25 cal but I start at 50yds and go out to 200.
I’ve since retuned the 22 for FT (20fpe) so I practice 10-55 yds only now with same groups numbers but at every other yard.
Normal practice now with 25cal is 5-10 shot groups at 25,65,104 scope zero, and 144 yds.
I’ll finish up with scope at 10x so I can punch out to 230 and try to maintain a POI of squirrel chest :-).
It’s easy to see how I’ve put appx 60k pellets through 22 and close to 16k on 25 so far.
Now that I have each gun dialed in I just keep my self tuned up

I forgot to mention that the groups were achieved from pellets straight out of the tin – no weight-sorting, sizing, or kissing and blessing each one. They were just lightly-lubed for the purpose of keeping the barrel clean for each shot.

I´m with Spinj here. That is my regimen too – the same with the powder burners. I always clean my AG barrel after every outing and if i shoot more than 100 pellets/bullets in a session i stop and clean the barrel by the 100 shot mark. I don´t brush and wank it with a rod, just a few patches/VFG felts thru the bore soaked in Ballistol, a couple of dry patches and i´m done.
The most important area to keep clean – in my mind – is the in-lead. Again – both PB´s and AG´s – since it´s the first area the pellet/bullet makes contact with the bore.
I´ve studied this subject untill i almost lost my mind (almost) and nearly did a Van Gogh and cut my ear off. However you slice it a clean barrel always shoots the best. I don´t mean clinically clean and desinfected but clean.
Dr. Evil is greatly amused by my cleaning habits but who cares as long as my guns shoot the shit out of his .. :butkick:

I think the whole re shoot in the barrel after cleaning is more for a barrel that hasn’t been broken in with polishing the bore.

after you polish a bore you hardly ever have to clean it, i just do it periodically if i’m shooting allot ,

i will clean the bore after a few hundred rounds, just to see what’s going on,and there is no shoot in time afterwards ,seems like a few shots to settle in is all it takes.

in my experience

Demp, have you tried shooting at least past 40 shots for a group? When you have the chance, please try it out. I’d be interested to see the results with a leaded barrel. I’ve tried it before but was unsatisfied. I’m going after repeatable point-of-impact – pellet on top of pellet repeatability.

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