Regulator theory
Question for all you smarties regarding how regulator work.
If I have a regulator set at some pressure (doesn’t matter what) and I use a super powerful hammer spring, what will happen? I’m thinking that the regulator will ‘expel’ excess pressure and output the pellet at the speed set by the regulator. So you’ll be guaranteeing a constant velocity at the expense of wasted air… Am I right or is it more complicated than this.
Now if you use a super weak hammer spring, it’s like the regulator is not even there and the velocity just depends on the spring. Right or wrong?
If above is true, then there exist this one optimal hammer spring setting (which can be set by pre loading) that will guarantee constant velocity and use minimal amount of air.
Opinions?
All Replies
Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
(Mr. Newbie, I’m not ignoring you, I’m just not sure what your answer is to my question. Please answer it directly.)
thats because..I thought I was in the Talon SS thread…talking about how a basic regulator works..
I was lost..I know very little about how a crickets reg works..looks just like an edguns tune though.
Like I said as a joke…good thing I’m pretty 🙂
That’s what I truly don’t understand about maximum velocity. If the reg is set at some pressure, then the MAXIMUM velocity is also set right? It CANNOT go above this velocity, right?
I think it could be a lighter/smaller head pellet, on 16g jsb are inconsistent in head size and weight, I can feel a large head size when I close the bolt and I know its going to shoot slower and it does at 20fps slower, like one pellet in a mag. had no problem with the edgun 18.1g.
yes, when your max out on reg pressure—–no matter how much you tighten down on the HSTA, most of the time your speed will go down, less spring expansion.
I’m almost understanding you Ernest, almost…but I’m still a little confused and you haven’t answer my question.
I understand that as you tighten down on the HSTA, there will come a point when you preload too much and the spring is actually weaker because of less spring expansion. So let me state my question again:
Supposed the reg is set at say 120 bar. if I continually REPLACED the hammer spring with stronger ones, will the velocity continue to increase or will it plateau at a certain velocity regardless of how strong the spring is.
Mr. Newbie, I’m not ignoring you, I’m just not sure what your answer is to my question. Please answer it directly.
It is a darn good thing that I am pretty !! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Although my explanation of how a regulator works is dead nuts on!
i think in this particular case tbear should go with Ernest’s info..and ignore me..the man obviously knows his stuff.
I thought I was in the talon ss thread…. 🙂 🙂 🙂
good thing I’m pretty….these things happen
Very informative thread. Thanks Ernest for all the great info on regulator adjustment. I wish I could send you my airgun for tuning.
That’s what I truly don’t understand about maximum velocity. If the reg is set at some pressure, then the MAXIMUM velocity is also set right? It CANNOT go above this velocity, right?
I think it could be a lighter/smaller head pellet, on 16g jsb are inconsistent in head size and weight, I can feel a large head size when I close the bolt and I know its going to shoot slower and it does at 20fps slower, like one pellet in a mag. had no problem with the edgun 18.1g.
yes, when your max out on reg pressure—–no matter how much you tighten down on the HSTA, most of the time your speed will go down, less spring expansion.
Could someone explain to me why when I’m shooting around 880 average then once in 20 shots or so I get this 895. Is this an indication that my regulator is set too high? If I lower the reg just a little will I then get the maximum to be closer to 880?
That’s what I truly don’t understand about maximum velocity. If the reg is set at some pressure, then the MAXIMUM velocity is also set right? It CANNOT go above this velocity, right?
wow you made that so complicated, but I got it now
“30 minutes” = 15 degrees
Sorry made mistake in typing the measurement, yes it 53.35mm for the standard .22, the .25 is 56mm thanks in pointing that out. .30 min in a clock face, its more accurate adjustment then saying 1/4 turn CW of the HSTA—there is 3 hours in a 1/4 turn.
reg pressure set at 120b in a .22 standard cricket BP, target speed shooting 18.1g 880-900fps. now to mate a proper hammer spring (have 3 different load and length) 23.55mm X 9.00mm X 1.25, by using this spring I have to find the highest speed I can obtain lets say 895fps now I back it down to 885fps now I adjust CW 30 minute then shot 14 shots (12 hour circular pattern) now I’m at 890fps now I turn another 30 min that another 14 shots now about 894fps, now turn another 30 min take 14 shots the average speed around 895fps, now I shoot it off the reg and take note of pressure— I say around 110B, now fill to 150B and shoot it down to 100b while taking crony reading of all the shots, now refill to 150b shoot it down to 100B while taking crony reading, now compare the 2 spring, if 2nd string speed went down to 893fps then adjust hst 30min CW, fill to 150b shoot it down to 100B if the speed Avg 893 fps this would be your highest speed and you leave the current HST setting.
To have a consistent shot string and highest shot count your HST has to be above your max speed of 30min to 1 hour.
Now let say with the current reg pressure you want to lower the speed to 840fps by turning CCW on the HSTA by doing that you are regulating the regulated pressure, now take 2 shot string and compare it from the 893fps shot string, I will bet my right nut the 893fps will have a tighter shot string, and you will notes at 840fps your 1 and 3 shots will be higher or lower then your average, its really noticeable the next morning. if you want it to be consistent at that speed lower the reg pressure around 100B.
this is only two example of many.
– you mentioned proper hammer spring as 23.55mm x 9.00mm x 1.25……that is not stock spring right? I thought the stock spring was around 53mm
– when you say 30 minute, do you mean 180 degrees?
please provide more examples!
In conclusion, send it to Ernest!
reg pressure set at 120b in a .22 standard cricket BP, target speed shooting 18.1g 880-900fps. now to mate a proper hammer spring (have 3 different load and length) 23.55mm X 9.00mm X 1.25, by using this spring I have to find the highest speed I can obtain lets say 895fps now I back it down to 885fps now I adjust CW 30 minute then shot 14 shots (12 hour circular pattern) now I’m at 890fps now I turn another 30 min that another 14 shots now about 894fps, now turn another 30 min take 14 shots the average speed around 895fps, now I shoot it off the reg and take note of pressure— I say around 110B, now fill to 150B and shoot it down to 100b while taking crony reading of all the shots, now refill to 150b shoot it down to 100B while taking crony reading, now compare the 2 spring, if 2nd string speed went down to 893fps then adjust hst 30min CW, fill to 150b shoot it down to 100B if the speed Avg 893 fps this would be your highest speed and you leave the current HST setting.
To have a consistent shot string and highest shot count your HST has to be above your max speed of 30min to 1 hour.
Now let say with the current reg pressure you want to lower the speed to 840fps by turning CCW on the HSTA by doing that you are regulating the regulated pressure, now take 2 shot string and compare it from the 893fps shot string, I will bet my right nut the 893fps will have a tighter shot string, and you will notes at 840fps your 1 and 3 shots will be higher or lower then your average, its really noticeable the next morning. if you want it to be consistent at that speed lower the reg pressure around 100B.
this is only two example of many.
I would do it this way:
reg pressure set at 120b in a .22 standard cricket BP, target speed shooting 18.1g 880-900fps. now to mate a proper hammer spring (have 3 different load and length) 23.55mm X 9.00mm X 1.25, by using this spring I have to find the highest speed I can obtain lets say 895fps now I back it down to 885fps now I adjust CW 30 minute then shot 14 shots (12 hour circular pattern) now I’m at 890fps now I turn another 30 min that another 14 shots now about 894fps, now turn another 30 min take 14 shots the average speed around 895fps, now I shoot it off the reg and take note of pressure— I say around 110B, now fill to 150B and shoot it down to 100b while taking crony reading of all the shots, now refill to 150b shoot it down to 100B while taking crony reading, now compare the 2 spring, if 2nd string speed went down to 893fps then adjust hst 30min CW, fill to 150b shoot it down to 100B if the speed Avg 893 fps this would be your highest speed and you leave the current HST setting.
To have a consistent shot string and highest shot count your HST has to be above your max speed of 30min to 1 hour.
Now let say with the current reg pressure you want to lower the speed to 840fps by turning CCW on the HSTA by doing that you are regulating the regulated pressure, now take 2 shot string and compare it from the 893fps shot string, I will bet my right nut the 893fps will have a tighter shot string, and you will notes at 840fps your 1 and 3 shots will be higher or lower then your average, its really noticeable the next morning. if you want it to be consistent at that speed lower the reg pressure around 100B.
this is only two example of many.
If I have a regulator set at some pressure (doesn’t matter what) and I use a super powerful hammer spring, what will happen? I’m thinking that the regulator will ‘expel’ excess pressure and output the pellet at the speed set by the regulator. So you’ll be guaranteeing a constant velocity at the expense of wasted air… Am I right or is it more complicated than this.
Now if you use a super weak hammer spring, it’s like the regulator is not even there and the velocity just depends on the spring. Right or wrong?
If above is true, then there exist this one optimal hammer spring setting (which can be set by pre loading) that will guarantee constant velocity and use minimal amount of air.
Opinions?
There is a small pre-firing chamber inside of the reg. When you fire your shooting off this pre-chamber..not the tank or airtube!
The regulator then refills this pre-chamber from the main tank to a preset pressure.(set by the internal washer stack of the reg)
This volume of air is so small it makes very little diff if you hit it a little harder or softer with a heavier hammer or bigger spring.
10-15fps wiggle room is a good guess. Your not really letting out more or less air..your just doing it a millisecond faster or slower.
Now you can starve the setup a little bit by only half opening the regs valve with a real light hammer strike…
But then you are in effect bypassing the whole reason to have a reg.
What you mentioned above is what one does for a non-regulated gun…
yes you can do the best you can to try and smooth out the shot string……by increasing/decreasing hammer spring and weight
Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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That’s what I truly don’t understand about maximum velocity. If the reg is set at some pressure, then the MAXIMUM velocity is also set right? It CANNOT go above this velocity, right?
I think it could be a lighter/smaller head pellet, on 16g jsb are inconsistent in head size and weight, I can feel a large head size when I close the bolt and I know its going to shoot slower and it does at 20fps slower, like one pellet in a mag. had no problem with the edgun 18.1g.
yes, when your max out on reg pressure—–no matter how much you tighten down on the HSTA, most of the time your speed will go down, less spring expansion.
I’m almost understanding you Ernest, almost…but I’m still a little confused and you haven’t answer my question.
I understand that as you tighten down on the HSTA, there will come a point when you preload too much and the spring is actually weaker because of less spring expansion. So let me state my question again:
Supposed the reg is set at say 120 bar. if I continually REPLACED the hammer spring with stronger ones, will the velocity continue to increase or will it plateau at a certain velocity regardless of how strong the spring is.
Mr. Newbie, I’m not ignoring you, I’m just not sure what your answer is to my question. Please answer it directly.
No, replacing with a stronger spring will not increase the speed—–> been there done that :ugeekn: