First PCP Condor
Hi all,
My name is Tom. I’m from Iowa. I’m new here. Please be kind.
My only airgun experience so far is a Beeman R7. I’ve used it over 20 years to keep my Purple Martin colony free of sparrows and starlings. GREAT little gun! Suddenly took an interest in PCP and wound up with a used Condor package. I bought it 2 years ago not really knowing what I was getting into. Fired it once. Sounded like a canon. Put it up because I love freedom ha ha. Now I’ve taken it down from the shelf and decided to do whatever is necessary to calm it down for efficiency and accuracy and stealth. I’ve been reading this board and started by ordering the new Gen V shroud in order to stay out of the poky, a TTTA to lower the tank for better cheek weld and sight picture and to be able to fill the tank on the gun, and I also ordered the Quick Change Top Hat. Should be here sometime this week.
My Condor does not have the “spin-lock” frame or tanks. It has the spin-on tanks (came with 2 tanks, neither have gauges or fill ports). One tank has a Top Hat that has a larger diameter valve and stem, and the second tank has a Top Hat with a smaller diameter valve and stem. I presume the larger diameter stem and valve is what you guys call a “Hi Flow” tank, please correct me if I’m wrong. The second tank has a much smaller diameter valve stem and Top Hat opening. I presume this tank is a “stock” tank, again, please correct me if I’m wrong.
What I most need from you guys is some advice as to what next to do to make this a “conservative tack-driver”. Cutting my airgunning teeth on a Beeman R7 taught me early on to appreciate accuracy, precision, and consistency over brute force. How do I make my Condor make one hole groups in a starling’s eye at back yard ranges up to 40-50 yards?
My Condor came with 2 barrels, both of which are .22 cal. One is 24″ long. The other is 12″. Which should I use? Accuracy, precision, efficiency, and stealth being supreme?
Maybe some of you would recommend that I go to .177 cal., like my R7. I’ve already considered it, but, truthfully, my R7 only lacked in knockdown power. Sparrows didn’t stand a chance up to 50 yards. But I pissed off a few starlings and they hold grudges. My Purple Martins paid a heavy price. That’s why I may stay with .22 cal. on the Condor. I only want room temperature starlings and no more grudge matches against my Martins.
Should I replace the stock hammer for a lighter one?
Should I send it to Tony and let him tune it?
What would you guys do?
Maybe some of you would even suggest that I bought the wrong gun. If so, what would you recommend from the PCP line to replace this Condor?
Hope you all can help.
Thanks
Tom from Iowa
All Replies
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
Hi Tom, first of all :tag: .
I have a .22 Talon SS prepared by Tony to be compliant with French laws for free to purchase airguns, i.e. 20J max (or 14.8 FPE).
It has a 12″ barrel, TT anti-slap hammer, standard top-hat, just adjusted, incl. 2 o-rings behind the top hat and TT full tune. This gun is highly accurate. Tony has shot a sample target at 30 yards, leaving just one ragged hole, slightly larger than a pellet itself. If I’m doing my part, this can be reproduced all day long. I’m mainly using 16gn JSBs, but doing as well with the lighter 13gn and heavier 18gn.
As for the noise, at 30 yards, standing 3m off the target you just hear “zippp – popp” the first being the pellet cutting air, the second being the impact. The shot itself is nearly imperceptible, so absolutely neighbourhood friendly.
I think the .22 pellet is okay at 12 FPE, legal limit in the UK and a lot of guys shooting and hunting with this power. Therefore my guess is that it would be OK for the starling hunt whithin the range you use. As for penetration, you can also “adjust” (impact) power by simply using a lighter pellet as it will lose more energy over the same distance compared to a heavier pellet.
Scope zeroed at 35 yards should give you a good compromise for reasonable holdover/ -under up to 50 yards.
A last word concerning Tony and his work, I can only recommend. More than simply being a really nice and helpful guy to talk to, his work is serious and he knows what he’s doing with the AirForce line of guns. Thanks Tony for this fine rifle (needed to be said).
hope this helps a bit
Cheers
You Do not need a micro tank. I can make anew insert for just about any velocity you need.
thanks, Tony
FANTASTIC! Thanks Tony. I found the page on this site that showed 5 different inserts for the QCTH. I’ll be in touch. I think I need to be somewhere between 8 and 12 fpe; higher than my R7 (6ish fpe), but within reason (I don’t need to poke holes through hardwood 2X4s). My largest targets will be an occasional racoon on down to snakes, starlings, and common house sparrows, and all of them within 50 yards (50 yards or less). I just need to get the job done without exposing myself to undue liability. Ideally, I want my targets to absorb all the energy. No use wasting energy making huge exit wounds and worrying about where the pellet finally stopped. I’ll keep the Beeman R7 for the light jobs.
But before I can do anything, I need a GOOD chronoscope/chronograph for testing. Any advice?
Tom from Iowa
That Is no problem.
You Do not need a micro tank. I can make anew insert for just about any velocity you need.
thanks, Tony
I think I just stumbled on to something! In another thread on this board, member cdegrassi says he’s using an AirForce “micro-meter” tank and flinging .22 cal. 14.3 grain pellets at 500 fps. That yields 7.9 fpe, RIGHT WHERE I WANT TO BE!!! AirForce says that they developed the “micro-meter” tank for 10 meter competition. Now all I have to do is find out if one of Tony’s QCTH restrictors will achieve the same result as AirForce’s $190ish “micro-meter” tank.
HEY TONNNYYYYY!
Chrisyboy,
Thanks for the reply. I fully expect not to hear much else than the hammer on this Condor after installing the Generation V shroud that should arrive tomorrow or Thursday. The reviews that I’ve read about the TT Shroud leave little doubt about it. If the hammer slap doesn’t scare them off, those starlings will be easy plinking, at least until they get wise, which won’t take long! I have decades of experience shooting starlings. They’ll be on to it in no time flat!
The only way in the world to keep the starlings stupid and vulnerable is to shoot only solitary birds (no witnesses), and don’t EVER miss! If you use that strategy, you can literally exterminate an entire neighborhood of starlings. But if you shoot one and another is close by to observe the shot, all bets are off from then on. Likewise if you ever miss! From that point on, starlings can even tell when you get up from the kitchen table to grab your rifle, and they’re gone long before you can open a door or window.
Due to an experiment that I did with my R7 (shooting the heaviest pellet I could find), I discovered that trajectory is likely to be an issue trying to slow a .22 cal. pellet down to 8-12 fpe. I’ll do some pencil pushing tonight to test my hunch. I may have to buy a .177 barrel for my Condor, or else give up on trying to keep my .22 cal. pellets below 12 fpe and learn to live with 20+ fpe. I’ll just have to keep the Beeman R7 around for the “light” work.
Sure wish I could find an affordable chronoscope/chronograph that actually works. I did see some pretty good reviews on the “Procrono” today. May give that a closer look. I can’t get serious about anything until I get a good chronoscope.
Again, thanks for the reply and nice to meet you.
Tom
Hogtyd
You do well!!! Accuracy is a must! Higher shot count is a bonus. You’ve achieved both. But in addition, I need a lower fpe. To achieve it, I’m betting I’ll need a regulator, the smallest top hat insert, probably a lighter hammer and a lighter hammer spring, and the lightest pellet that will group well. I’m thinking I better call Tony and get his advice on this and see if what I want to do is even doable if not impractical in .22 cal. I’m guessing that 8-12 fpe might be only achieved by reducing the velocity so much that my trajectory will be more like lobbing a mortar than shooting a gun.
I did an experiment with my R7 this week. I started using the heaviest pellets I could find. Just as I suspected, my trajectory is so drastic as to make using them impractical, at least without a good mil dot scope. I have to go back to the flatter shooting light weight pellets that I’ve used for years. My guess is that holding a .22 under 12 fpe is going to net the same impractical result. If so, that means I have to change to .177 cal. Later tonight I may do some math and see what my velocities are likely to be. Maybe I won’t even need to bother Tony except to order a .177 barrel.
Tom
Tom at 12fpe and a decent silencer the starlings wont even hear the gun. You wont have any audible muzzle noise at all. You should find you can get more than one at a time as they wont even fly off. But I recommend you run the gun a bit higher / faster than that. 20 something fpe will give you better range with less drop in trajectory. At under 30fpe the condor is till incredibly quiet. As someone said, get a chrony if you dont already have one. Enjoy your Condor, its great gun.
Tom, I never gave a thought to fpe my main goal was to get the best accuracy and most shot count. I believe I have achieved that with my current settings. The no noise is a great bonus though. About all I hear when I pull the trigger is the the hammer hitting the bolt and valve. I am shooting with the smallest insert that comes with the ttth and I believe someone said he sells some that are even smaller. I think the interchangeable inserts are the way to go when adjusting power rather than o’rings or washers. I called tony about the washers and he said he never uses them. (Although he does sell them)
Hello Hogtyd, thanks for your response and nice to meet you!
You might be great help to me as your needs seem to resemble mine a bit. However, if my math is correct, you’re currently pushing 25 fpe. Experience is the best teacher, but I suspect 25 fpe will be way beyond my needs. I’m currently using a Beeman R7 running about 6 fpe. I need more now because I’ve recently moved to a new location and now have to send those .177s a lot further than before. I can still use my R7 for relatively close work, but the Condor will be needed to keep distant starlings in the kill zone. I was thinking 8-12 fpe would be adequate and would leave plenty in reserve for an occasional trip to “big game country”. I was even thinking that taming this .22 cal. Condor to 8-12 fpe range might be more easily accomplished by changing over to .177 cal. I won’t know for sure until I see what can be done with .22. But you make me think that I will have to run even lower pressures than you are running. Maybe I’ll need a regulator. But I’m afraid a regulator will put my LOP beyond my reach. I’m already stretching it a bit, even before adding the TTTA. When I was a kid (many many years ago), the local Sheriff kidded me by saying, “Tom, you ought to sue the city.” When I asked why, he said, “Because they built the sidewalks way too close to your ass!” He didn’t have to say a word about my short arms :rofl:
Have you ever attempted to tame your beast down to 8-12 fpe?
Again, thanks for your reply, and, nice to meet you.
Tom
Response to Cally:
Hi Cally. Thanks for the hospitality and your response to my post.
I am aware of the Pandemic video instruction on how to “marry” the TTTA to a Non-SpinLock tank. I’m good with that and it should not be a challenge for me. Thanks to Pandemic for the great instructional video! Trouble is, I’m already beginning to see the advantage of the SpinLock feature, which I don’t have. Changing tanks won’t be easy at all. That will leave me with an extra tank that I can’t use unless I decide to buy another frame! HEEYYYYYY! 😀
I’ve been looking for a chronoscope/chronograph for about a week and am very disappointed that nearly all of them that I’ve researched have chronic (pun intended) “error” issues. I’ve held off purchasing anything until I can get a handle on which company has the best fix for the problem. I’m leaning toward a Gamma Master Chrony with an IR or LED light kit. I’m not anxious to drop such a load and then be endlessly frustrated by constant “error” codes as most chronoscope/chronograph users report. I agree with you that a good chrony should be my next purchase. Without one, I’m blind. And taming this Condor without one would be most laborious and time consuming. I’ll get the TTTA, QCTH, and shroud installed so I can do some shooting while my search for a chronoscope/chronograph continues.
Thanks for the reply, and nice to meet you.
Tom
I’ve whittled the local starling population down to near-nothing in the past 1.5 weeks, and it’s paid off in spades in the new, excellent birds that are now hanging around. Especially the Western Bluebirds, which are a real treat to see around here! Here’s wishing you the best in your noble efforts to expunge the local fauna of the starling menace! Your efforts will probably reward you in more than martins (although they alone are worth the effort!)
GsT
Thanks for the reply, GeneT.
I think .22 will adequately meet my needs if I can slow it down to 8-12 fpe. The R7 is running about 6fpe and it taught me that shot placement rules and power is only nice when my target can absorb it all. A .22 running 8-12 fpe should be more than enough power for what I do. I’ve taken coons, crows, and even a fox with my R7, believe it or not. I should be able to turn starlings to dust with a .22 running 8-12 fpe. A .25 like yours would be overkill for me, me thinks. When all is said and done, I may wish my first purchase for this Condor had been a .177 barrel. Lord knows this Condor could boost a .177 pellet to the moon, let alone propel it to only 8-12 fpe. Starlings would be just as dead with a .177 hole in their breast as with a .22. I’m just afraid I won’t be able to calm down the Condor enough to keep that .22 lead from blasting clean through a starling and then landing in somebody else’s neighborhood. The only reason I didn’t order a .177 barrel is because the wind blows so much here and .22 is better suited for my environment. I could second guess myself to death, I suppose, but the thought occurred to me that a Beeman R9 might have been a good choice for me if only I weren’t so intrigued by PCP. I’m going to give this Condor a go anyway. I’m sure all you guys can help me cool down my Condor and get it done right.
Good on you for eradicating the starlings in your neighborhood. Three years ago we moved to a new neighborhood and I’ve already taken enough starlings with my R7 to replenish my neighborhood with Bluebirds. What a delight! I’ve got Martins at our new location now and looking forward to building another big colony. Fifty-three breeding pairs is what I had at our old location. Would be wonderful to do that again in our new location. The Condor will see to it that starlings never get a chance.
Thanks again, GeneT
Tom from Iowa
Hi Tom! I also have a condor in the 22 cal. Mine is an SS model so it has the built in silencer. After about 1000 shot and a prochrono I have finally found my guns sweet spot. I fill my tank to 2000 psi and shoot the jsb exact 18.1 grn. Pellet. Super accurate out to about 50 yrds and I get about 30 shots to a fill. I shoot down to about 1200psi. I forgot to mention I have installed a ttth and a tt anti slap hammer. Power wheel is set on 2 ,shoots about 800 Fps. Your results my vary as these guns are all different but this will give you a place to start. Mine at this setup is very quiet.
My name is Tom. I’m from Iowa. I’m new here. Please be kind.
My only airgun experience so far is a Beeman R7. I’ve used it over 20 years to keep my Purple Martin colony free of sparrows and starlings. GREAT little gun! Suddenly took an interest in PCP and wound up with a used Condor package. I bought it 2 years ago not really knowing what I was getting into. Fired it once. Sounded like a canon. Put it up because I love freedom ha ha. Now I’ve taken it down from the shelf and decided to do whatever is necessary to calm it down for efficiency and accuracy and stealth. I’ve been reading this board and started by ordering the new Gen V shroud in order to stay out of the poky, a TTTA to lower the tank for better cheek weld and sight picture and to be able to fill the tank on the gun, and I also ordered the Quick Change Top Hat. Should be here sometime this week.
My Condor does not have the “spin-lock” frame or tanks. It has the spin-on tanks (came with 2 tanks, neither have gauges or fill ports). One tank has a Top Hat that has a larger diameter valve and stem, and the second tank has a Top Hat with a smaller diameter valve and stem. I presume the larger diameter stem and valve is what you guys call a “Hi Flow” tank, please correct me if I’m wrong. The second tank has a much smaller diameter valve stem and Top Hat opening. I presume this tank is a “stock” tank, again, please correct me if I’m wrong.
What I most need from you guys is some advice as to what next to do to make this a “conservative tack-driver”. Cutting my airgunning teeth on a Beeman R7 taught me early on to appreciate accuracy, precision, and consistency over brute force. How do I make my Condor make one hole groups in a starling’s eye at back yard ranges up to 40-50 yards?
My Condor came with 2 barrels, both of which are .22 cal. One is 24″ long. The other is 12″. Which should I use? Accuracy, precision, efficiency, and stealth being supreme?
Maybe some of you would recommend that I go to .177 cal., like my R7. I’ve already considered it, but, truthfully, my R7 only lacked in knockdown power. Sparrows didn’t stand a chance up to 50 yards. But I pissed off a few starlings and they hold grudges. My Purple Martins paid a heavy price. That’s why I may stay with .22 cal. on the Condor. I only want room temperature starlings and no more grudge matches against my Martins.
Should I replace the stock hammer for a lighter one?
Should I send it to Tony and let him tune it?
What would you guys do?
Maybe some of you would even suggest that I bought the wrong gun. If so, what would you recommend from the PCP line to replace this Condor?
Hope you all can help.
Thanks
Tom from Iowa
Tom,
First welcome to the forum, your choice in the condor will be just fine. We have very similar needs in terms of range and noise level. The QCTH and shroud will make this possible!
I believe your tank adaptor has the quick fill adaptor and a pressure gauge so you should be good to go. The only thing is that you might need to marry the ttta to the tank you plan on using. I think it is a moderate amount of work to put together and not really a “quick” change type of modification.
The only other addition I would recommend would be a chrony to help with tuning. Sending it to tony would yield a nice airgun, but I feel that part of the fun of the airforce line is trying to tune myself. They are very straight forward making them eras to work on.
Thanks cally
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Well, I shoot an 18″ Condor – originally a .22, but now a .25. My suggestion is to get that TT quick-change top hat in there and the LDC/Silencer and start tuning. If you need to reduce power, you can do so with washers under the tophat. I haven’t had a starling walk away from a .25 hit yet, although two poor hits left ’em flopping for a few seconds. (That’s two out of several dozen – normally it drops ’em stone cold).
I’ve whittled the local starling population down to near-nothing in the past 1.5 weeks, and it’s paid off in spades in the new, excellent birds that are now hanging around. Especially the Western Bluebirds, which are a real treat to see around here! Here’s wishing you the best in your noble efforts to expunge the local fauna of the starling menace! Your efforts will probably reward you in more than martins (although they alone are worth the effort!)
GsT
Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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I have a .22 Talon SS prepared by Tony to be compliant with French laws for free to purchase airguns, i.e. 20J max (or 14.8 FPE).
It has a 12″ barrel, TT anti-slap hammer, standard top-hat, just adjusted, incl. 2 o-rings behind the top hat and TT full tune. This gun is highly accurate. Tony has shot a sample target at 30 yards, leaving just one ragged hole, slightly larger than a pellet itself. If I’m doing my part, this can be reproduced all day long. I’m mainly using 16gn JSBs, but doing as well with the lighter 13gn and heavier 18gn.
As for the noise, at 30 yards, standing 3m off the target you just hear “zippp – popp” the first being the pellet cutting air, the second being the impact. The shot itself is nearly imperceptible, so absolutely neighbourhood friendly.
I think the .22 pellet is okay at 12 FPE, legal limit in the UK and a lot of guys shooting and hunting with this power. Therefore my guess is that it would be OK for the starling hunt whithin the range you use. As for penetration, you can also “adjust” (impact) power by simply using a lighter pellet as it will lose more energy over the same distance compared to a heavier pellet.
Scope zeroed at 35 yards should give you a good compromise for reasonable holdover/ -under up to 50 yards.
A last word concerning Tony and his work, I can only recommend. More than simply being a really nice and helpful guy to talk to, his work is serious and he knows what he’s doing with the AirForce line of guns. Thanks Tony for this fine rifle (needed to be said).
hope this helps a bit
Cheers
Papa Schultz,
First, thanks for the reply, and, nice to meet you.
The Talon SS looks like a nice rifle. I have a 12″ length barrel in reserve for my Condor if I choose to use it. I’d have switched to the shorter barrel already except I was thinking maybe the 24″ might be a bit more efficient (waste less air) and maybe a tad more accurate than the 12″. So I’ll start with the 24″ and do some testing with that before I try the 12″ barrel. If I find little or no loss of efficiency or accuracy with the 12″ at the distances I’ll be shooting, I’ll probably opt for the shorter barrel to make the rifle a bit lighter, shorter, quicker, and easier to wield around in close quarters. Maybe a conversion to a Condor SS configuration would be best.
As you say, 35 yards would be a good zero point for me at this location. Adjusting either way, shorter or longer range, would be easy. And adjusting pellet weight would help maintain an appropriate FPE. Sounds like a plan!
I’ll take some time to get familiar with this Condor and make sure that it will do what I want, then I’ll start working on refinements. I’m sure Tony could make it a real sweet shooter. A Tony Tuneup might be a good project after my Purple Martins have migrated to South America for the winter. By then I’ll also know what other modifications I might prefer.
Again, thanks for the helpful response, and have a great summer.
Tom