Shrouds in MA – Confusion and ambiguity
Hello folks, this is my first post here after lurking for some time. When I was in the Army a lifetime ago I enjoyed the precision required for shooting long distances with the M16 and I’ve always had fun shooting break barrel Gamo’s and RSW’s that my nephew brings about all the time.
Its my plan to get a Condor. I like the idea of being able to really reach out with power and accuracy. What I don’t want is a ton of noise as I’d like to shoot in my back yard.
According to MA law, air guns are not governed other than ownership and operation by minors, and by not being able to shoot across rights of way, roads, RR tracks etc. There’s nothing else that I can find explicitly related to air guns. At the same time silencers appear to be prohibited and a big no-no.
Grrrr…. Is a shroud a silencer? Is an air gun covered by this? After reading posts here for a while it seems that you folks agree that shrouds/moderators/silencers are a no-go in MA. Sigh…. 🙁
So herein lies the confusion and ambiguity. Yesterday I walked into Dicks Sporting Goods in Framingham and to my amazement what do I see proudly displayed behind the firearms counter?
A Gamo Whisper.
Ummmm…. Am I missing something? Shouldn’t this be illegal? I want a shrouded Condor. If a Gamo Whisper is A-OK then why can’t a Talon Tunes shrouded Condo be A-OK? Or how about this offering from CTI? See: AirForce Condor Sound Suppressed modification, add $119.00.
Maybe you folks can shed some light for me. I sure hope so.
I mean come on, is it that unreasonable to want your Condor and not hear it too? 😉
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IPE; You live in MASS. That’s a strange, liberal state to say the least. That state seems to make up gun laws as they seem fit. I would move if you don’t want problems with what you intend to do.
My best story about your state comes from my Uncle Mike. He’s now a retired Air Force General. He commanded Westover AFB during the first Gulf War. As such, he was issued a little general’s weapon to carry. A 92F 9 mil, the military standard issue with a shoulder holster. He need ammo so he went to the only gun store he could find in your fine state.
He laid out his military concealed weapons permit, his ID as a General and then asked to buy bullets. The kid behind the counter told my uncle that he didn’t have a permit to buy bullets in the state.
My uncle’s response? “Son, you’re real lucky I don’t have any bullets right now. I’d use one on you.” AKULA
We are talking about a airgun not in the statutes under firearms. I would go all the way on that one and go for false arrest, an airgun is just that even x-fellens can have airguns
They are quiet enough, and have plenty of power for what you have described. Condor is more for hunting and makes a lot of noise, and if you’re concerned with noise, neighbors, laws, and police, you will like the Talon SS just fine.
Get the SS and then add a long barrel in the future if you want more power.
hunting regs are tricky. Many just say “illegal to us a sound reduction device” or there abouts. Does not specify firearm. Read carefully or hunt without the shroud.
that clears it up a bit…
do you really need a silencer or shroud ?
if your shooting at home, then i would say yes…as the noise could be annoying to neighbors, or they could confuse the sound with a real shot from a firearm and call the cops on you, and some rifles are so loud in relatively confined(such as indoor shooting) spaces it could harm our hearing…with a shroud noone will know your shooting, and if they do they will just think its part of the rifle, and leave you be as long as your not annoying them or putting them in danger. indoors who will ever know there
out hunting…well you should have your hunting license etc in order….and be hunting a legal place….then you have no need for a silencer…airguns are not that loud (mostly) yes the report might scare the prey, but then make your first shot count and stop messing around 😉
Here’s the curent code section
Here’s the relevant definition of a silencer from US Code
18 USC Section 921
Sec. 921. Definitions
(3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
an antique firearm.
24) The terms “firearm silencer” and “firearm muffler” mean any
device for (“for” indicates that the design intent of the device is for use with firearms) silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm,(airgun is not a firearm) including any combination of parts, designed or
redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a
firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for
use in such assembly or fabrication.
Bold for key words and red for addition on my part of how it reads to ME. Seems reasonable enough.
attaching or attemptig to attach the aigun shroud to any fiearm by ducttape or otherwise would fall uder fabriating/assembling/modification. Then you’d be guilty of both manufacture and posession.
by putting a pillow or bottle in front of the muzzle of a firearm, you show INTENT to silence/reduce report of the firearm. at that point the unrelated item becomes a silencer and subject to regulation as a firearm.
any LE official could still cause a bunch of trouble for you if they really wanted to. a very grey area to be sure.
I personally take it that as long as I don’t have an airgun shroud that directly fits one of my firearms without MODIFICATION ie both a firearm and airgun threaded 1/2-20 unf, I should be OK. I can live with that. I still don’t make a spectacle out of the shroud as others will not always agree.
You would prbably win in court, but at what cost? That is an individual decision around here. If you don’t make a spectacle out of having it, you probably will never have an issue.
…but according to the law, if I understand it correctly, it would have to be able to be connected to a firearm and lower the report by 1db, as it is currently constructed. Because the end of the shroud that attaches to the Condor has a one inch diameter hole in it, it is impossible to attach it to a firearm, as you would have to alter it to fit. This is how they get away with building them into the Talon SS. Also, if you try to take the one off the Gamo Whisper, you will destroy the shroud, making it inoperable on a firearm. The devil is surely in the details, and if you are at all uncomfortable with the idea of a frame extender/shroud, I would get a Talon SS and just get closer for your shots.
IF BTAF want to make a case out of you they can and will if you got a shroud….but they can do that too if you got a tube with endplugs and washers
a shroud is in most cases not easy to attach on a firearm, but lets face it…a roll of duct tape, and i can damn well mount just about any shroud on one of my rimfire rifles…enough to be good for a couple of shots at least…and that makes them illigal….as BTAF says anything that will lower the sound by 1db on a firearm is illigal….but hey a emty water bottle, potato or a pillow will reduce the noise too….so am i criminal for having those items in my house ?
if you plan to go hunting or shoot at a range i would be very carefull with what yo show up with ! i was asked once if my rifle was supressed, and i had to reply “oohh no no no…its just a bull barrel, its run by air thats why its so quiet 🙄 8) ”
if its just to quiet down your rifle at home, as not to bother neighbors, and keeping lead dust to a minimum…then i would say get the shroud
whether or not the cops want to make an example of you or just confiscate the shroud is hard to tell….
what makes things even more confusing….AOA sells tons of rifles with SILENCERS on them, and GAMO is apprently approved with silencers/shrouds on them, and so is a bunch of other rifles too…monsoon, AA410, airwolf.
so what the hell are we to think of shrouds on airguns….at best its a grey area
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But if your an ex-felon with an airgun plus a shroud you will go to jail… It has happened…