New guy, Buy Condor or Talon SS?
First, I appreciate in advance any serious effort to help me in my decision. I also apologize in advance for the fact that my decision making process is admittantley a complex thing and the following diatribe is offered in hope of sharing what drives my goals/wants in making this decision.
I am a long time spring gunner who is a decade late getting the itch to get into PCP’s. I have narrowed my selection to an AIRFORCE gun due to the lines modular/modifiable platform but don’t know which gun to start with as to take me down the path to my own personal airgunning nirvana, and am looking for advice from those of you already versed in these guns.
Here are my interests/shooting needs that I am hoping to accomodate with setting up the same gun in different variations to suit my uses.
1. General small game hunting (crows, jack rabbits, etc.) out around 60-70 yards. >>>I am sure with the right pellet and a familiarity the guns trajectory a .22 Talon SS would cover this well, but the Condor would have that extra “oomph”. (On a side note, I have taken the same game out at and a little past 75 yds. with my trusty R1, so I am not looking for a gun that magically makes me a better shooter or hunter).
2. In preparing for my state to take CA’s lead and allow us to hunt turkey, maybe even some varmints (Coyote, Fox, Bobcat, etc.) in the near future, I would also like a gun that I can consistently take those animals at around 75 yds with as well >>>For this, I am leaning to the Condor with appropriate mods and .25 barrel and shroud from Tony at Talon Tunes as 80-90 FPE (damn close to the FPE of a .22lr!) would be more than enough to dispatch the above humanily.
My interest in using an airgun for this rather than one of my powder burners (my lil’ .223 contender is puurfect at it) is for the aspect of how much challenge a whisper quiet .25 pcp would add to calling a bobcat in for a 50 yd shot without giving away my position vs. a 250 yd shot with my .223 that scares off everything within a 3 mile radius! At the above ranges, everthing would have to be perfect to be succesful. Calling, setup, camoflauge, everything.
I use a 20 ga. single for quail hunting, a 30-30 for deer, do most of my rabbit hunting with a vintage recurve and only catch trout on flys I tie at my kitchen table -all to make my success more dependant on my own skill rather than equipment selection-That is what excites me. Call me strange, but what interests me the most is near impossble odds against success. It never gets boring and always leaves something for you to improve upon.
So I guess my questions truly are these;
a. Is a full length .22 Condor w/ shroud to unruley (long, slow swinging) to carry in the field for small game?
b. Can a .22 Condor be shot on a lower power setting in the backyard without garnering too much attention from the neighbors?
c. I have read that the Condor power adjuster is less effective due to it’s hi-flow valve, any truth to this?
d. If I bought the Condor, would I be happy with it as a small game gun set up with a shorter 12″ barrel and SS end cap or would the shot count due to the hi-flow valve limit it’s time in the field too much?
I understand that I would probably be best off getting a talon SS for small game work and a Condor for the bigger/further stuff, but I would like to know from those that already know what the possiblity of doing both the same gun with two different setups is.
Again, thanks in advance to those that take the time to help guide me.
John
All Replies
jkcinaz, you might want to start with the SS and work your way up as you feel needed. That’s what I ended up doing and have no regrets. I shot it alot in the 12″ version, got to know the gun, get the feel for it. Then I graduated to a 18″ barrel, with a simple aluminum tube frame extender to keep the noise down, and found that this may personally be my favorite all around set up for me. Really nice combo.
Then I went for a Condor bottle, and a 24″.25 cal barrel from Tony
For me, (and I’m sure many others) this experience has been almost unbelievable. I have yet to take out any critters with the .25, can’t wait for the opportunity. I understand 90/100 yrd clean kills are very doable, and I have no doubt about that! I only have 90 ft max to shoot, and that’s shooting thru the entire interior of my house, out the back window into the target box at the end of the backyard. Right thru 2X4’s like butter, and right in the little dime size circles I draw. Mega power, and great accuracy, God I love it, it just kicks major ass.
Anyways, because of the great platform these guns offer, it almost doesn’t matter which set up you pick, you can always change things up as you go if you’re willing to invest in it. I’ve got 3 barrels now, 12″ and 18″ in .22, and the longer .25 barrel, with a Talon or a Condor tank to choose from depending on what I need/want it to do.
But if I was forced to pick a particular set up, and could never change it, it
would probably be the 18″ SS. Good power, good shot count, and without your gun being as long as a broom stick when adding shroud.
Let us know how it all goes, and have fun… (kinda hard not to!)
I MADE MY DECISION!!!
and first let me say thanks to everyone who gave me their input. After looking through the different options $$$ wise and for my applications it makes more sense (again, atleast dollars and cents-sense)
to start out with the condor and not have to buy a $380 upgrade later.
………..So I just got off the phone with Martin at AirHog and he is rounding me up the following for shipment next week:
.22 Condor
Co2 adaptor
12″ .22 barrel
SS endcap
Tri-rail scope base
Med. Accushot rings
Leapers 4-16x50AO with sidewheel
and a pump to get started until I decide what tank I want
Martin is going to ship it in it’s “Condor SS” clothes and for fun, I am first going to try it on CO2, then on HPA and finally in it’s Condor format. I anticipate that any other order would most likely be anticlimatic.
My thought is I can shoot it in it’s SS getup on CO2 around our 2 acres and then set it up ala condor for hunts. I can already tell that it will just be a stop-gap setup and maybe if I am a good boy Santa will order me a SS for christmas, leaving me able to turn the condor into the .25 long-range gun I would like it to be.
I am in agreement with posters that say that a shrouded condor is too long, so once I get settled in to this setup and start thinking about a shrouded .25 barrel I will again pick the brains of the knowedgable, I know some guys have already done .25 condors in around 18″ barrels and those appeal to me.
Now I have to go break it my trusty R1 that soon enough, she won’t be #1 in heart anymore, a position she has held for around 15 years now.
Again, thanks gentleman.
Condor all the way, I am not so impressed with my Talon SS w18″ in .177 out at 50+ yards. But I am using semi crappy pellets… 😉
Even though I prefer the low powered talon ss, you need a condor for what you describe.
Order now, and get a free CO2 valve so low powered cheap shooting for when your not long distance blasting.
You’re welcome, good luck.
It’s really hard to go too wrong with these guys.
Doug Owen
I again appreciate the input guys, thanks for the indepth reply DKOwen, you make some very valid points.
AF used to use a heavy valve spring in all Condor valves because they wanted to keep the velocity down as they didnt want to lose the .177 markets (where .22 is restricted and overseas etc) by having a gun that is useless in .177.
As far as I am aware they use a lighter spring in all valves now
I think there is a lighter spring in the valve with the .177, I have heard of people having problems when going from .22 to .177
jkcinaz – just go with the flow, your get more info that way.
you should just get the condor, find or build a shroud and be done with it, the co2 they are offering will take care of the backyerd fun, and with the hpa you’ll have the power to do the other fun stuff.
I guess I think the Talon is the call as well. If you’re up to 60 and 75 yard shots with your R1, you should easily get the same performance with the Talon at 20 fpe or so (4 on my hammer adjuster with the standard tank and 12 inch .22 barrel). You can’t dial the Condor down this low. With the SS end cap, the Talon quiet enough for most uses. I’ve shot a lot of game at those kinds of ranges with mine and haven’t felt the need to go to the longer barrel under 80 yards.
If that’s where the bulk of your shooting will be done, set the gun up for that. The Condor hammer is just too heavy if you don’t want ‘full blast’. Even the micormeter tank doesn’t give my friend Mike any adjustment range at lower powers, fine tuning is out. He gets good results with Kodiaks, but the energy is higher than you might like.
I’ve shot Beldings Ground Squirrles (more like chipmunks than typical squirrles) at very long ranges with my Talon and 24 inch barrel. I didn’t feel ‘under gunned’ relative to Mike, even though he had a lot more power on tap. If I felt I needed more, a Condor tank and hammer weight would put me on equal footing with Mike.
Heavy game is going to call for a longer barrel (with or without a shroud), probably of .25 caliber, and all the air you can get. That means a tank change and a hammer weight.
In the field, if you can do the job with the 12 inch barrel (and SS cap) why would you want to add a foot to the length of the gun if you don’t need lots of energy? For sure I don’t go to long barrels (I have ‘all three’ calibers to choose from) until the range demands it.
Again, if you’re happy with your R1 at about 20 fpe, the Talon at the same sort of power will no doubt suit you better for the same uses. For that matter, a Discovery will do the same job for half the money (just not really upgradable). A much longer gun that won’t tune down to that level well is not going to serve as well.
Doug Owen
my bad.
Funny, I thought it fit in and was a letitimate question. AFAIK that is the case, the Condor comes the same way regardless of caliber. Since the factory sells the ‘ultimate’ Condor kit which three friends have bought (comes with long .22 and short .177 barrel), one has to wonder how it’s done if that’s not the case.
Then again, I guess I don’t see anyone owning this thread or the replies of others so maybe I don’t see the sin?
Good luck.
Doug Owen
😳 sorry, i thought it was related.
my bad.
Understood. Thanks bikini. Just means more shootin’, right? Sounds good to me.
MDIMDI,
I understand your need for info. But I will ask you as politely as possible to please start your own post rather than soft-jacking mine, please. Sorry to hear about the wisdom teeth man, I remember having mine out I hurt for a week. Dentist had to sit across my lap to pull the lower ones and his assistant held my head down against the chair. Atleast that’s how I remember it, maybe that was a prison movie I watched as a child. Good luck either way man!
Thanks,
It is not really 4 guns. When you change the barrel, you will need to re-zero.
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Wow looks like you made your decision as i was typing my post lol. Hey congrats, let us know how it all works out… oops, and welcome to the TAG! 😛