Top Hat problems —> SOLVED
After reading through most of the Best practices in the Forum,
Just checked the top hat of my air tank and found it to be loose.
Tried 3 sets of Allen wrench and it just bent them all.
There’s a lot of play in the top hat.
Unable to remove the 2 screws, nor tighten it.
Note : The Allen wrench is of the correct dimension.
Is there any way I can remove it ??? and refit it
All Replies
Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/
Try the forum above.
Also, ask over on the Mods/Machinists forum here at TalonAirGun.
What I’m thinking is that maybe your setscrews are mashed on the far end from running against the stem. Now that the stem isn’t in the way any more, try to run the screws all the way in. Then, you should be able to find new setscrews. Maybe your top hat threads are okay and all you need is new setscrews. If you’re across the pond, they’re called grub screws.
Its a very small O-ring, am sorry I didn’t measure it.
Its fits deep into the groove and am sure a replacement will be tough.
Hard to see…the O-Ring………….I knew it when it popped out.
Air force recommends replacing the top hat in such scenarios.
Rhoderman : Do you have a link where I could learn, the right ways of tuning / tapping / drilling etc…
I don’t have most of the tools required for the job too…
Google is the “Bible” to knowledge, but I prefer a site which has it all like the stealth recourse.
Wanna try what you’ve suggested too.
O-Ring Groove? In the Top Hat?
I swear I’ve not seen that on mine. WTFO?
On the setscrews, have you tried to run them in, now that it isn’t on the tube? Maybe the threads are fuggered at the back end and they might go in the rest of the way and fall through. Then, you could chase it with a 4-40 tap.
Spend some money on a good .050 allen driver. If the hex is completely hosed, I can usually still get a set screw out with some time and effort.
Thanks Sam for all the responses.
I did check ure link , but post shipping its turns pretty expensive for me.
So my cheaper options are :
Option1:
> Take the Top Hat to a ELECTRIC DISCHARGE MACHINING (EDM) specialist who can perform the task skillfully at a cheaper cost.
Option2:
> Wait for the replacement…Till then no more Questions as I can’t shoot with my Talon….
Thanks a ton Buddy……..and cheers to Don too…….
Now this is the part where am lost.
I have to do some reading on “E-Z out”,
Any links or reference would be great.
I can try and drill it out
But how do I re-tap new threads ???
Any links or reference would be great.
So I can use the right tools for the right job.
You’d have to use an “E-Z out”, which I don’t know if there is one that small??? Another opition would be to drill it out and re-tap new threads, but I don’t know if you could get it all out with out hitting the stem.
I tried heat ..The hair drier…& The soldering Iron (30Watts) Trick….
It got one screw off…but for the other one, it bent 4 of my hex wrench and yet the 2nd screw wouldnt come out…
I even called up Airforce Airguns and the rep asked me to use Acetone …easier option would be nail polish remover for the task but it didn’t help too.
By now the hex screw aint hex its round so there’s no more grip left for me to try anything
****WARNING****
There one thing I ‘ve noticed though …there is an O Ring at the base of the Top Hat too…
It just popped out of its notch after touching the soldering iron onto the hex screw for a while..
Maybe I crossed the MODERATE Zone as Don and Sam wrote.
Am attaching Pic where the O ring popped out for any future reference….
Damaged Hex screws in the Top Hat
I think the Top hat is damaged by now so I have asked for replacement.
But the one hex screw that was stuck couldn’t be removed yet.
But in my case where the hex screw is round and if the O-ring wouldn’t have popped out…
Would there be any other way to get that screw out.???
The SOLUTION Might help me the next time or somebody who might be frustrated with an issue like mine.
direct heat, minimizing impact on surrounding parts of the valve…….I’d say thats a good alternative too. Never thought about it myself, but should work. 💡
Hey Don, what about a soldering iron? You should be able to touch the screw, getting it pretty hot with out making everything hot. What do you think?
a little heat will be in order for the loktite. Start easy, something like a hair dryer on the tophat. I’ve used a bic lighter with good success (AND EXTREME MODERATION) heat a LITTLE, check, heat a LITTLE, check; until the screw can be moved.
I say again, MODERATION.
Man they most of used a ton of lock-tite. I am hesitant to suggest heat because you might damage something or worse. Better wait till someone with more experience comes along.
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Once again my earnest thankfulness to All Experts who helped me achieve the below….
Credit to every member who contributed for the success !!!
Tried my best to remove the hex screws stuck in the groove of the top hat.
Then I took it to a machinist to try drilling it through to have it removed and look how it got messed.
Finally I just took my chances as I was anyways handicapped without a new Top Hat.
I asked him to drill a larger hole and have it tapped for one of the larger hex screws, that I could get easily at any hardware store.
Now this was done on the opposite side of the 2 holes that comes factory drilled on the Top Hat.
Went home polished it with the sand paper (smooth finish one)
Mounted it onto my Air Tank, left it loose and cocked the talon.
Now kept tightening the top hat till there was no play when the breech was cocked against the top hat, post which I had the new hex screw tightened. [Do not over tighten]
Then what I got was incredible !!!
Talon SS / 18” barrel / air tank fill to 2400 PSI / CP14.3 grains Domed.
I fired 40 rounds and chronied my findings.
It started 848.3 fps and the last reading was 825 fps.
The Tank Fill was at 2000 PSI when I had completed 40 rounds of CP pellets.
That makes it 10 PSI each shot.
And accuracy !!! See for yourself.
Since I was shooting indoor at 5 yards and free hand without any rest . I found the accuracy incredible.
Note :- There was only one pellet among the 40 which left the barrel with a hiss but did hit the target right !!! Probably because the distance was too less.
Thanks to Talon Team !!!!
You people rock !!!
All this was possible with loads on information I gathered reading across the posts.
And the best part is now I haven’t even applied any locklite, but I know the top hat sits tight with that one large screw on after 40 rounds as he’s got better grip onto the stem.
Note :- Do not over tighten the hex screw else it might damage the stem and this I learned from the forum.