Talon SS Chrony #’s, Accuracy, Power Wheel Settings, Tophat.
Boy , did I get some surprises today. Take a look at these numbers. 12″ barrel, .177, completely stock, tophat snug against breech, abt. .14. I was trying to find a lower power to use shooting indoors. All of these were actually 30 shot strings, but you get the idea.
2500 psi fill – PW 3
1. 866 9. 840
2. 856 10. 844
3. 855 11. 835
4. 857 12. 829
5. 852 13. 833
6. 844 14. 833
7. 845 15. 828
8. 841
1400 psi fill – PW 0
1. 762 9. 742
2. 760 10. 745
3. 759 11. 740
4. 754 12. 740
5. 747 13. 736
6. 749 14. 733
7. 748 15.730
8. 741
1000 psi fill – PW 0
1. 675 9. 742
2. 760 10. 745
3. 759 11. 740
4. 754 12. 740
5. 747 13. 736
6. 749 14. 733
7. 748 15. 730
8. 741
750 psi fill – PW 0
1. 593 9. 577
2. 591 10. 571
3. 587 11. 575
4. 587 12. 569
5. 583 13. 567
6. 582 14. 571
7. 580 15. 562
8. 584
500 psi fill – PW 0
1. 502 9. 490
2. 500 10. 489
3. 497 11. 486
4. 498 12. 482
5. 492 13. 482
6. 492 14. 479
7. 493 15. 476
8. 493
500 psi hit the spot I was looking for. Forget the Micro bottle. If you have to shoot birds indoors just short-fill and back that hammer preload (Power Wheel) to 0 to have a much more accurate trigger release. I also found a sweet spot for my Field Target shooting:
2700 psi fill – PW 0
1. 898 11. 893 21.888
2. 884 12. 893 22. 882
3. 895 13. 893 23. 885
4. 892 14. 888 24. 880
5. 896 15. 891 25. 878
6. 903 16. 887 26. 878
7. 889 17. 891 27. 877
8. 896 18. 891 28. 880
9. 891 19. 893 29. 884
10. 901 20. 892 30. 882
These are real numbers that have my gun shooting almost as well as a regulated gun. In fact, right after doing this, I shot a friends USFT Field Target rifle, one of the best in the business, over the same setup, and his numbers were only slightly better than mine. And at 25 yrds (the range he was shooting at), I thought my gun was just as accurate. So hopefully I’ve achieved what I started out to do, have 1 gun that I can hunt indoor birds with and not blow holes in their ceilings, and use the same gun for FT competition. And by the way, at 500 psi, the gun is very quiet, something else I was looking for. Accuracy was maintained at every setting tried. At all of these settings I kept plinking away at a 1″ diameter spinner target 40 yards away. All I had to do was compensate with mil-dots, and even then, from 2700 to 500 psi, only 2 or 3 dots.
Great gun, great time, hope this info helps. Probably the biggest improvement I made in the gun was making sure the Tophat was snug against the breech. Forget TH settings. Make it snug, then adjust with air pressure and PW to get what you want. Oh, PW adjustment from 0-10 only made a difference of about 30 fps per shot. In my opinion, the added “jump” the hammer slam makes at higher power isn’t worth it.
Scrench
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Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
❓ Has anyone tried this with CO2 yet ❓
I haven’t heard of anyone adjusting the Top Hat of the CO2 Hi Flow valve. I wonder how it’s 852 PSI of CO2 will compare to what Scrench got with 700 or 1000 PSI of air.
Thanks Scrench, I never thought of “under filling” the tank.
My AF guns are much more consistant with the top hat set right against the breech and no play.
If I adjust it in, and fail to place it back against the top hat when I shoot, I get a weak shot. Yes I know it is always supposed to be against the top hat, but in the real world something can always move it forward, like brush or clothing.
Roachcreek
I have found the top hat to have more consistancy & less damaging when snug or minimal play with a closed breech slide. This is returned back to factory setting. I have also modded the valve in the TSS tank.
My TSS will fire well with a Hiflow valve at high pressure, it needs about 6-8 on the pw. Going to reduce spring preload on the Valve and max fill 2500psi as done prior to peloaded for 3k. No chrono yet but the 2500 lower valve preload feels like 60 shots at reasonable fps. Check out the valve mod here.
[url=http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12813&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0]Condor Valve Mod[/url]
Eddieirvine,
The reason I leave the “power” wheel on 0 is because I think the hammer slamming into the top hat is the worst part of the design of this gun. If you haven’t shot any better guns, you won’t know what I’m talking about, but on better guns, say, any Daystate, USFT etc…, you will find that when you squeeze the trigger, there is absolutely no movement or jerk of the gun at all, just the movement of the trigger. This makes for an incredible leap in accuracy. Think of it as the kick from a powder gun or the jerk of the spring from a springer air gun. Now how accurate would you be if those didn’t exist, if you never flinced, or even blinked your eye? The hammerslap on the Talon SS, especially set over 3 on the PW, was annoying the hell out of me because I thought it detracted from the potential accuracy of the gun. Set on 0 is also why you have to tap dance with the Top Hat adjustment to keep it snug enough so that the hammer will open the valve. You DO realize that the “Power Wheel” actually has nothing to do with power, but is simply a preload adjustment for the spring which slams the hammer into the valve? That’s why it makes very little difference as to where you set it for FPS, as shown in my tests, but in terms of hammerslap, it can make a huge difference which directly affects your accuracy.
There is another course of action: you can have someone do a hammer mod with a lighter hammer, or try different hammer springs, or both. I’ve never tried either of those, but maybe some of you will, and post your results. After all, this is by far the easiest gun to play and experiment with, so have at it.
I see some folks spitting out specific numbers for Top Hat adjustment, and I’ve tried that route too, but in my opinion, every gun is different and the best way to adjust it is to just loosen it up, then snug it up against the breech, then tighten. Check the tolerance on your safety. Does that seem like some super precise engineering to you? We are talking about a very inexpensive airgun after all. And remember that over time, since you loosened up the LockTite on the screw from the factory, that once you find it’s magic spot, to reapply a little LockTite to the threads of the screw so your TH won’t move on you. Hope this helps.
Scrench
Ok, I’m confused. You “Lowered” the top hat to .14? What was it before you lowered it? I must be measuring mine wrong. I thought “low” was something along the lines of .060 not .14? Explain please.
Good info. Thanks guys
It worked great for me. The second tank that I ordered had a .076 top hat vs the SS 0.085. I bumped up the 76 to approx 85 and backed off the 85 a hair as it was making a lot of noise for the same penetration (no chrono).
I used the scuba tank and precision pressure gauge to match the fill pressures.
I get about 50 consistent shots before the gun gets quieter and another 10 shots before I notice less power at 25 yards. I’m running approx 2500psi down to a floor of 1600-1800 psi (its hard to tell when filling).
I hit the range the other day in 18mph winds and got 3″ groups at 50 yards about 1.5″ low. I bet with no wind I would be on the money.
Srench I think I understand you right instead of using a feeler gauge to check you top hat adjustment you are bringing back you breech as far as you can and making that fit so there is no play in it against the top hat? I have heard this is the way they set up Airforce guns at the factory I don’t think I have heard of anyone acctually trying that seems to have worked out good for you especially when you are looking for lower fps count shots! I also noticed the power wheel was at 0 on all but the 2500 fill any reason for that?
Your post has definitely helped me. I readjusted my top hat to make both fit snug and did some ‘telephone directory’ testing to make sure both my tanks had the same penetration at the same fill pressure within the first five shots.
I backed off one top hat a little and increased the other ‘factory’ top hat to be a snug fit.
I will let one of my tanks run down and try some 1000psi shooting with 7.0gn 177 RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets. Its good to know I can run a tank like a micrometer for close/indoor ranges and then charge it up to 2500psi for hunting and long range shooting with heavier pellets.
Thanks for your research… it keeps me from buying a chrono 🙂
Nice info,
I have 3 tins of ammo. cromags, kodiaks, cphs a full 3k scuba with a 2700psi charged talon tank and a chrono on a tri pod.
Now I just need some F^@$ing weather that fun to shoot in!
Yes, sorry for that, and I apologize in advance to anyone who feels like I got too “preachy”. I was just real excited when I found all of this stuff out. I’d also like to suggest to everyone that the only way you will ever truly know what your gun is doing is to chrony it. I always figured I’d use a chronograph maybe once or twice then it would sit around useless. Boy was I wrong, and I’ve already ordered one.
Ammo was JSB Exact Diablo 8.44 grain unlubed. Lubing (I use Slick 50) will only improve the situation. Thanks for pointing out my oversight. However, what works in my gun may be pitiful in yours. Example, I read constantly how some people love Crossman Premiers, but they stink in my gun. I ordered a Pellet Sampler from Straight Shooters that includes 33 different kinds of pellets, and shot every one of them to find out what works best in my gun. And don’t be fooled, lot’s of pellets work great out to 35-40 yards. You seperate the wheat from the chafe at 55.
Good deal thanks for your research and you forgot to mention the ammo used.
Viewing 14 replies - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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LURKER #1,
I can’t really speculate on CO2 because I’ve never owned a CO2 gun. But my suspicion is that since CO2 is highly sensitive to the ambient temperature, you’re going to get even wider variations, and then you’ll have twice as much trouble trying to figure out why.
If you can, I would suggest by all means to carry out your experiments in a controlled temperature environment to remove that as a factor.
Good Luck, and let us know what happens.
SteveinLA,
You’re Welcome.
Scrench