POI dependent on cocking knob position
I just want to share this discovery of my Condor with you all. With my Condor’s cocking knob set to the left, POI shifts to the right. When I set it to the right, POI is dead on. And, with the knob set to the middle (not set to the right or left), POI is at a different location. What gives? Have any of you noticed this in yours?
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P.S. anyone wanna trade a condor for a career??? 😆
The tri rail really helps diminish the effect. The problem is the Airforce guns do not have stocks…the entire gun is the stock. Other guns exhibit the same problem when bipods are attached to the main tube and some even have problems when the gun is filled and the maintube will touch the barrel. The good thing with woods stocks it takes away the effects of handling the action while shooting. But most any rifles accuracy will be affected if you place the maintube as the support instead of the stock. The thing with the talon is the entire thing is the maintube!
i wanned a trirail, but the dealer dint have it 🙁 so i got me one of these
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=299#
will it do the trick?
Benzin… Use a one peice mount and the problem dissapears.
OMG… now it turns out i have a gun that “bends” depending on how i hold it????? this things keep getting better and better. 🙁
P.S. anyone wanna trade a condor for a career??? 😆
Yeah! you lost me at ,leaving barrel loose!. I didn’t get the controlled test part. oh well! I’ve been called an idiot before. thanx tz
Adam, good find!
I appreciate the response, guys. I’ve resolved the problem already though. The thing was that I initially loosened the bushing screws to see if free-floating the barrel would have an effect on accuracy. And with the barrel being able to move freely, everytime I rotate the cocking knob to either the left or the right, the breech o-ring – they are 90 durometer – will turn the barrel respectively, thus affecting POI. The bushing screws are back to being tight again and the problem has dissappeared.
I am currently in the process of finding out the effects of holding the Condor at different points and their influence on POI. So far, I have noticed that placing my forend hand just behind the second bushing (the one next to the power wheel) gives me better results. I theorize that the weight at the muzzle end – starting from the front of the forend hand – will allow the barrel to free-float to its natural position.
With the aid of a laser mounted to the front end of the gun, it’s easy to see how much bending the aluminum frame exhibits as I look through the scope. With my trigger hand holding the pistol grip, I’ve found that placing my forend hand way close to the muzzle will bend the barrel up – for you bipod users, take note of this! And, when my forend hand is placed just right behind the rear bushing, or, directly below the forestock, the front end of the barrel drops back to its neutral position. Further, pulling in the pistol grip to my shoulder also alters the muzzles point-of-aim; it sort of twists the frame slightly. Again, this is with the assistance of a laser. I already mentioned in a past post about putting lateral pressure on the forend area of the gun and how it too shifts point-of-aim, so I don’t need to get into that. In essence, the Air Force rifles’ aluminum frames are prone to bending. The frame-flexing doesn’t occur, however, when the gun is held lightly at the pistol grip area and lightly at the forend area. DO NOT HOLD OR REST THE GUN ON THE FRAME CLOSEST TO THE MUZZLE! BIPOD USERS, YOUR POI WILL CHANGE WHEN YOU SWITCH FROM RESTING THE FRONT END VIA A BIPOD TO HOLDING IT ON THE FOREND WITH YOUR HANDS. So, with what I have said above, the key, therefore, is to hold the gun lightly.
I urge you guys to try installing a laser on your rifles and see for yourself how certain vertical or lateral pressure alters the muzzle’s point-of-aim. It is real simple to observe. Just watch how the laser’s point deviates from its original location from the scope reticle with varying lateral and vertical pressure. It really is a big help in helping you to see what other variables lie present when shooting the AF rifles.
Safe shooting, all!
I have seen the same thing and think I figured it out. I alway push my knob to the left and yesterday I thought I would push it to the right. Well all of a sudden the POI moved to the left. I thought it must be me so I reevaluated my shooting posture and made sure everything was correct. I was shooting from a camera tripod with a V support and seated in a hard stable chair. And sure enough were it had been shooting on hole dead on the cross hair it was now shooting one hole group but 1/4″ to the left.
My cocking knob sits up against the top hat firmly. The knob sits up against the frame firmly. So what I did was to take off the knob and thin down the spacer around the threaded portion and then I sand the bottom of the knob enough to where it did not contact the frame at all when pushed to the side. Now the knob will click and seat to the top hat and when pushed to the side there is no resistance at all where before it was a firm push to move it over.
I just check it this morning and it is back to shooting one hole groups no matter what postition the knob is placed. I hope that was the actually cause of the problem, but for now it is dead ball accurate making one hole groups with no shifting at all.
I have recently adjusted my top hat and I attribute the new top hat setting to causing the increase resistance betweent he knob and frame.
Hope this helps!
I started just pulling mine all the way back and not tilting it to the side…. for no reason other than my .308 breech wouldnt allow me to move it to the side so I kept that habit – I didnt imagine that it would affect anything.
Maybe moving it to the side pushes down on thebarrel or hinders some kind of movement during the fireing cycle.
Be nice to see how much these bounce around with a slow motion camera during firing cycle.
Very interesting find…I’d heard of it changing consistancy in FPS but not POI. Hopefully I’ll find a place to shoot today and test my SS out also.
Jim.
Interesting……. I am planning on shooting my SS on paper in the morning and will try this while at it to see if that happens to mine.
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LOL Benzin. Before you get all excited and dump your Condor, let’s sit back and try to understand a bit more about this phenonimon. More than likely, the laser was mounted on the top rail and probably further away from the trigger than where the forearm was held. So if the frame is going to bend using the pistol grip as the fulcrum, it’s gonna make an arc based on that distance. Now look at how and where the barrel is fixed to the frame. It would be much closer to the pistol grip. The arc it makes would be a lot narrower than the one made by the laser. This explains why holding near the trigger produced less of change in the POI of the laser beam. This is why we free float the barrel and glass bed the action in our powder burner because the fore stock will move.
This is an interesting and valuable observation spinj because I (probably some other members as well) had no idea how much the AF frame will flex. But I suspect the POI shift of the laser (not pellet) will be a lot less if the laser was mounted on the barrel instead. I’m thinking, may be a couple of short picatinny rails mounted on the frame will solve this flexing issue. Hmm . . .