Which would you buy????
I can get a Sun Optics scope in 8-32×60 or a 10-40×50 BOTH with blue illuminated mil-dot reticle AND internal buble level…no price difference. (I will prolly be picking one of them up this weekend)
I like the idea of having a 60mm objective to allow a lot of light in, but I also like the idea of having the 40x zoom!!! BOTH are 30mm tubes.
Thanks for the input!
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Yep! There are many stages to grinding. Wish I could grind and polish a Lovett knife in two steps. 😆 It takes a lot of hours, and many different grits and compounds. And no body is trying to see through one of my blades! 😉
MIke
Double ground…… 😆 😆
What, they made it twice ?? 😆 😆
I was an apprentice optical engineer for a couple years and when we made a QUALITY lens, it took ALL DAY 😯
About 7 stages of rough grinding and shaping, at least 5 stages of fine grinding, and half a day of various polishing stages.
Then onto the laser to ensure perfect centering.
We made one off lenses for mod testing so it had to be right!
I still have a neat line of 20/40 grinding grit under my skin on my finger from 20 years ago…. 😆
As many of you know here, I am an optics nut.
There are a lot of buzz words out there being used for sales.
Double ground? no such thing in a quality sens. double would mean twice. There are many grinding and polishing operations in a quality piece of optical glass to turn it into a decent lens. Double would = total crap.
The higher the mag. and the larger the objective, the higher the quality the optical lens and coatings must be. Period. This is why a good quality scope cost a lot of money.
You can get a Very Good quality 3×9 for 200. bucks. A High mag. scope for 200.? No way now how.
Spend your money on goo quality sower power optics until you can afford, or have the need for higher quality glass. You will see your target a hell of a lot better.
I can see a .17 HMR hole in a black bulls eye at 100 yards with high quality glass. You cant’ see it at 30x with a poor quality scope!
On a side not, The Leupy scopes are starting to get better glass. Finally!!! At their price point, there is no excuse for the low quality lens they have been using for all these years. They make a killer 300. dollar scope of 1200 to 1400 dollars. 🙁 Strong tubes. Fairly good adjustment. (Finally), and so so glass.
If your looking for high mag. large ocular bell. Side focus, lit Ret. All of these things cost money. Good money if done right. You wont fine hardly any of these at a low cost. :Much less all of them at once. The Chinese know well our love of gadgets. What you get is something that looks cool. Like a real sniper scope. What you get is a toy made to look like the real thing. They bank on the fact that most buyers want to Look Tactical and have never seen, much less used the real thing. And have no idea there is a difference.
They count on our ignorance. And our wanting neat looking toys. And that is exactly what they provide. Toys=Junk. Question. How much do we spend over the years to buy Junk. You know. The just as good, but cheap. Enough to buy quality in the place more times than not.
Cheap= replace for life. Never does the job well. Frustrating as long as it last
Quality= last for life. Excels in its job. A joy to use.
Mike
I did 6 years 95BV5 (MPI) 88M (transportation) had dual MOS loads of fun.
I was hoping to clarify why the lower magnifications and fixed objective were used for snipers and the reasons I hope I covered everything fairly well. You should see some of the mags used by the army marksmanship unit whom I’ve had the pleasure of shooting with back in the day these guys are the best and I learned a lot from them they were extremely generous with their time if someone needed help anywhere on the line.
I like the idea of having a 60mm objective to allow a lot of light in, but I also like the idea of having the 40x zoom!!! BOTH are 30mm tubes.
Thanks for the input!
Finding a scope that has clarity and can distiguish distance accurately
beyond 50yds on anything higher than X25 is tough…..I have Leapers
and BSA Tactical and they are 8-
32X56 and 8-32X44…Both of them have a hard time staying bright and clear past
X25….I even have a high dollar Nikko Stirling Diamond 10-50X60 and even it gets
slightly dark and fuzzy on X50. The other bad deal with high mag is that
the mildot range or field of view is so small that you can’t shoot long
yardages on high mag….My BSA is off the scale at 75yds…I have to dial
it down to X10 to get the target into the mildot scale. The leapers is
better because it is 56mm objective but you get the idea…
NOW, having said all that, I still like the high mag huge objective
scopes….
Bigger is better. Go with the 10-40×50 and let us know how it performs.
WOW…You’re my hero….BTW thanks for serving…That pretty much
answered every question I ever had about sniper scopes and the
reason they were so small….Great writeup…
There is a lot of controversy about optics in the military right now and I have been to sniper school and competed in more than my share of events. The average soldier is shooting at silhouette type targets with their low magnification optics because a wounded enemy is better than a dead enemy most of the time when it comes to air rifles you can’t just hit a silhouette sized target and get the job done you have about an inch or two at the most to kill a squirrel at 100m so there is a difference and more magnification is needed with air rifles.
Most units are having trouble engaging targets beyond 300m where the enemy seems to be most of the time and they need better optics. It also depends on if you are a sniper or marksman the are totally different animals in the military. The marksmanship team is using extremely high powered scopes for target and lower x10 for snipers and the reason for the lower magnification on sniper scopes (military) is field of view more than anything so the wrong person doesn’t walk into your line of fire.
Also the higher magnifications can make the mirage effect too severe a 20 or 30x magnification on a hot day could make a target disappear. Once again it’s body shots that you are taking with a 10x scope.
Another reason a sniper can’t have a huge 40 or 50x mag is it’s cumbersome and not a good thing in a real world situation. The reasons a modern sniper doesn’t have the mega mag isn’t the reason you think it is and it’s a compramise in performance, field of view, weight, mirage and more but for urban situations the military is changing their thought on this and if a sniper can have the high mag without compromising they would.
I have worked with various cities SWAT teams and the scopes are of very high quality and high mag that’s a fact because of the situation they are called for in.
The army marksmanship unit uses very high magnification for paper like 8x36x50 and such for the 50-100m targets so you have to know why the military units use lower magnification and air rifles do benifit from the higher magnification for the tight groups at 30-100m otherwise you won’t see exactly where you want it to hit and repeat it over and over again because 100m at 10x is not that great for seeing the mark you can see the lines but not exactly where you want to hit.
I do agree that quality of glass is most important and light transmission to get a good sight picture but for air rifles at 100m or less high mag is good.
Remember why snipers use 10x is due to many reasons and would rather be able to have the high mag. The army marksmanship unit uses the high mag scopes for paper at 50-100m.
No teasing me for the myspace account I did it to keep up on what my kids were getting into 🙂
I forgot to add that snipers predominantly use fixed objective compared to a target shooter that may use adjustable objective and the reason is due to the amount of time a sniper has to make a shot compared to a target guy that has much more time. If you are able to hold it at the high mags you will be more accurate than lower mags which requires a good supported position to include bipod and if no rest is available you use your partner as the rest if no partner while hunting with an air rifle you will be taking more shots standing unsupported or kneeling which might make a high mag scope hard to hold on target.
Well, I like the high mag scopes. I want the ability to zoom in as close as I want to pinpoint a shot. A lot of people use high mag scopes for Field Target shooting as you cannot use any other type of range finder. I thought I might get one of these and see how it works, before I start selling them. They have many other scopes as well, including NV, red dot and a plethora of other ‘glass’ items. The materials are made in Japan, the glass is double ground Japanese glass…the parts are shipped to China where they are put together. Components made in Japan and assembled in China are far better than items made in China. 😀
I second the notion that a cheaply made high magnification 24x and up is a waste of money as the quality of the glass will not allow clear vision at extreme magnification. Secondly, why do you need such high magnification on a rifle that will max out at 100 or at best 150 yards??? 40x scopes are meant for long range rifles. Many military snipers don’t go beyond 10x and they are shooting these anywhere from 500 to a 1000 yards. When I think of 40 x I think of 1,000 to 2,500 yards (.338 to .50 cals). Spend some decent money (100 to 250 bucks) on a good 3×9 or 10 or 12x magnification. Nikon makes good scopes for the money. I own a 1,400.00 leupold mark 4 and I will say the Nikon glass is as good. Also, I love my used Tascos (made in Japan only—not chinese crap). They also used quality glass and these scopes I have found on ebay for as low as 40 bucks. I picked up an nice 14x 50mm objective for 58.00 and it is perfect on my condor. Good luck scope hunting.
Actually, ZOS doesn’t have a website either. 😉
I bought it on Ebay (new, not used). Do a search for “ZOS scopes” and then look for a seller named “coveyrun”. They’re based in Idaho, so you don’t have to mess with shipping from China and they ship super-fast as well.
Also, if you search these forums for “zos”, you’ll find some info from others who’ve used one.
Hey buzz do you have a link to that scope?
MilDot reticle, w/ 11 position illumination clicks.
No internal bubble level, but I already have a Beeman level, so that doesn’t matter to me.
Came with a sidewheel, sunshade, flip-up lens caps and a pair of 30mm two-piece cheapo high dovetail mounts as well.
What type reticle does it have?
Is it illuminated?
Does it have an internal bubble level?
That is a good price…
I haven’t found them online either, but I just talked to the guy and I am gonna get one this weekend. I think I’ll get the 8-32×60. They also offer the 10-40×50, but I think I would like the larger objective versus the larger mag…
When I get one, I’ll post pics and test info etc…
Never used a Sun Optics scope but I have found that the higher the magnification the more critical the quality of the scope becomes.
I find that I tend to use much lower zooms. What sort of shooting are you doing Airgunner?
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I like the idea of having a 60mm objective to allow a lot of light in, but I also like the idea of having the 40x zoom!!! BOTH are 30mm tubes.
Thanks for the input!
Finding a scope that has clarity and can distiguish distance accurately
beyond 50yds on anything higher than X25 is tough…..I have Leapers
and BSA Tactical and they are 8-
32X56 and 8-32X44…Both of them have a hard time staying bright and clear past
X25….I even have a high dollar Nikko Stirling Diamond 10-50X60 and even it gets
slightly dark and fuzzy on X50. The other bad deal with high mag is that
the mildot range or field of view is so small that you can’t shoot long
yardages on high mag….My BSA is off the scale at 75yds…I have to dial
it down to X10 to get the target into the mildot scale. The leapers is
better because it is 56mm objective but you get the idea…
NOW, having said all that, I still like the high mag huge objective
scopes….
Bigger is better. Go with the 10-40×50 and let us know how it performs.
Well put mac and knife had some very good points too and FOV is one of the reasons snipers use smaller mag scopes it’s one of those dreaded trade offs and you must be able to see what is happening around the target in an urban environment so an innocent doesn’t wander in front of the target.
I agree with mac if given a choice between high mag and super clean optics I’ll take the solid optics anyday but for pellet rifles the high mag is really nice to have since we are dealing with such a small target and margins unlike hitting a human or deer with a .338 or .308 or even .50 where any hit is devastating.
If you hit a target and I am talking human target with any of those calibers you have taken the target out of the fight and depending on the injury it may tie up more personel tending to the injured target than a kill shot. Also one shot one kill isn’t how it always goes it’s the optimal outcome but takes more than one shot sometimes and this is due to multiple variables such as improper range, wind change after shot release, target moves (lucky bastard) during flight, and my wife wants on the computer so I’ll stop there but I am linking a cool link sent to me by a friend of mine that trains swat candidates I’ve competed with him and dusted his nuts a few times but he respects the military sniper more now that he read this article.
http://www.articlesbase.com/careers-articles/military-snipers-vs-police-snipers-98330.html
My ex-wifes husband just purchased a rem 700 and asked me on advice for a scope and I replied what distance will you be shooting and what type of terrain things like that he said 200m max so I told him a leupold 3×9 will do just fine because he won’t be able to see much past 200m anyway then he needs to locate the target in the scope so that will give him a wide FOV plus the target is big enough that he has room for error to still make the kill unlike a pellet rifle where the margin is small. I will have it dialed in for him by shooting it all the way up to 800m so he has all the data ahead of time or he goes out west where long shots may come up.
Mil dots in a scope with mil reticles will never be used to near their full potential on an air rifle either because they can be used to estimate range to target by knowing the approximate size of the target I figured I would throw that in there since most people don’t know of that being one of their uses.
Some of my powder pals have given me a really hard time about this transition to air rifles and even some vendors that I used to get parts for the AR rifles and my 1911 pistols acted like they didn’t want to look items up for me when I told them what I was doing but I am impressed by the knowledge of most on the site and those into air rifles I didn’t know I had to choose sides or something lol but even my gun shops I go into were disgusted by my talk of air rifles jeez.
I have many links and articles on sniping and I even have a military handbook somewhere if anyone needs information on that end of things I would be glad to give back since everyone has been super and very patient answering my questions.