AF barrels are "Free Floated"?
I have been asked if AF rifles have a free floated barrel.
The answer is no. While they do not have a barrel band that does not make them “Free Floating”. Free floated barrels are isolated from the stock of a gun to avoid any deviation of the stock, or in an airguns case the airtube, has on the barrels accuracy. Basically the only parts of the barrel and action touching the stock is the receiver in a free floated rifle.
The airforce guns are unique due to them securing the barrel via 2 bushings directly to the stock of the rifle. It is not attached to a receiver at the rear of the barrel like a traditional guns but directly to the stock. It is this attachment to the stock that keeps them from being considered a free floated barrel.
So while the AF guns are very accurate it is important to remember the barrels are not true “Free Floated” and careful handling of the stock is a must for accuracy.
Here is a “Free Floated” Rapid barrel
Here are picts of AF barrels with bushings installed.
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smartass 😉
email sent…
Ding ding ding ding……we have a winner. I believe this is the shortest post ever made by Riverside on the TAG!
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
thought as much Walt!
email sent…
in most regards the AF barrels are free floated, the problem is the design of the frame itself.
what I have been considering is cutting the frame behind the power wheel window and threading externally for the an M16 barrel nut then fitting the barrel up with a “bushing” similar in profile to the M16 barrel extension.
The advantages are many…
first off it would be a true free float
second one could install free float AR15 match hanguard tubes or rail systems
third…it would be a very rapidly dismountable system, just spin the forend tube off the threaded frame and you could slide out the barrel/forend tube for transit as well as swapping out spacers, hammers, springs and the like.
could make for a compact system with no need for allen wrenches particularly if one inserts a compression washer in the forend tube.
Now some may question the rigidity of a hand dismountable barrel mounting system but it has been used many times over the decades on a wide variety of high end target rifles as well as systems such as the Armalite AR7 which was not a great slouch in accuracy regardless of the asthetics. I have also used hand tite forend tubes on dedicated .22LR AR builds with no negative results on accuracy so I do feel its doable within the AF line as well
been considering doing this to one of my junker frames to see how it pans out as kind of a beta test before I go off and build a custom frame for my 9mm
Riverside, I have already gone and made the tooling to hold the AF frames (in order to thread the front of the frames internally as I am now doing). The same tooling can be used to thread the frame externally. If you want me to do this on one of your frames, send me your frame that has already been rough cut, plus an AR-15 nut so that I can thread it to that spec. No big deal.
walt
Hmmm. I agree with some of this and disagree with other parts.
Synopsis, sorry, but I get into bad moods sometimes and do bark occasionally. For any that I may have offended, my apologies. For those of you I will offend in future engagements, whatevers. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
Free floating is just a term. It hinges around the definition of several items which are central to its definition, one of those being “receiver.” In a normal rifle that’s a billet piece of steel or aluminum that the barrel is screwed into and which gives the barrel most of its support. The stock is just there so you can hold onto it and aim it and carry it easily. In some countries they figured lets run the stock up farther or clad it over the top with wood to make it pretty or guard the hands from burns. Today we frown on these as we have entered the age where everyone wants a gun that can shoot a rat’s asshole out clean at 1000 yards, costs $5, and requires zero maintenance.
On the AF guns the definition is problematic because the foreend, frame, etc are one piece as an extrusion. There is no traditional receiver to speak of. If you want to get technical I suppose the bushings are the receiver, but then again a normal definition of any receiver includes the housing for the bolt group, so the entire frame would have to be included at some point.
What everyone should keep in mind is this: what you call it doesn’t matter. Diseases don’t know their own names, either, but whatever you want to call it doesn’t matter. Ebola or any of a dozen mean ass bacterium or viruses will still kill you regardless of what you personally want to call them. In the AF rifles, its still a good system and there are still going to be clashes with traditional nomenclature because the functionality of the arm in the old world was easy to split up into functional groups and isolate for discussion. But when AF decided to manufacture one extrusion that took the place of a traditional receiver and stock, and design an action group the way they did, changes the nomenclature but does not change functionality one iota.
I still consider the design to be a hybrid, but I do consider the barrel a free float design because it is obvious what you can do to it to make it NOT free floating. You CAN attach something, like the normal tapered cone thingy that AF provides with its condors that goes around the front of the frame and holds the longer barrels at a point far out from the front bushing. Or an ldc. And change the point of impact. I don’t have to point out that numerous people have had problems with changing points of impact when attaching these to the front of their frames.
In my mind, the 2 bushings form an anchor point. The same way that a screw in barrel will anchor into a traditional receiver. So in my mind, the front edge of the front bushing is the end of the ‘receiver’ since that’s where the support and anchor for the barrel ends. Everything forward of that point, in my mind, will only have a negative effect on accuracy should it touch the barrel from that point forward. What you call it does not matter. Accuracy matters.
The big bushing idea has been done. Cygnus did it in his .458, the bushing was made of delrin. But he did it for different reasons, he was scared of the recoil and that the tiny 10-32 screws would never be able to hold the massive recoiling barrel in the frame and didn’t want to eat barrel. So he made a single, massive bushing out of delrin that was a very tight fit into the frame so it would provide more surface area/resistance and not fly out under recoil. However, this is also a valid way to mount the barrel. A single long aluminum bushing could be made and a barrel made up with a screw in feature, if that’s your inclination, to make an actual honest to god “receiver” block so you can point to it and say ‘aha’ there it is. But I have doubts that it will increase the accuracy of any given gun by any measurable amount. I could be wrong, but I’m not willing to invest the man hours and stock costs to investigate such an idea.
aloha,
walt
IMHO it’s NOT a bad thing the barrel fitting on the AF rifles.
You can go for only one BIG bushing ( fill up the space between the two ).
I did once made one big bushing from brass ,it add some weight on the rifle, nice for target shooting.
But when you use your rifle for hunting, and you have a free floating LDC, that’s a big point, you can have a small hit with your LDC to a branch of a rock without a problem, or it helps you to get a shot bird out of the tree 😉
I don’t want to walk with a rifle on a sling with a Long free floating barrel like the Theoben Rapid, and touch a branch, it’s TO easy to bend your barrel, or distroy your breechblok. 😥
as accurate as these rifles can be, I’m not worried much about whether or not the barrel is “free floated”.
it’s a good platform that’s different from the “floated” barrels of the firearms most of us are familiar with.
i, as an example, “floated” the action of one rifle i have and totally “bedded” the barrel; it works just fine. the rifle is NOT in the “one hole” group category, but none the less, will “cloverleaf” groups when i do my part.
like any other system, it should be checked and adjusted if needed.
IMO, the AF design is unique, simple, easy to understand and maintain. i think we tend to complicate or over-engineer things at times.
JMHO… 🙂
WOK Said “So yes sometimes we have to rotate and tweak a bit to get all the holes lined up. We have been doing it successfully for years and will continue to do so.”[/quote]
All I got to say is a man’s got to get his holes lined up!
Makes for a great weekend! 😆
😀 😀 😀 😀
WOK, I was going to remark on Walt’s comment but feared such an incident… 😆 I think we should make this a poll. 😈 😆 I’d vote NOT free floating for the AF, in fact it’s a floating breech if anything. 😯 😆
I know firearms benefit from free floating due to wooden stocks that can change shape and influence the barrel. Also a shot produces harmonics in the barrel that are more reliable if the barrel is allowed to move freely.
Free floating means the whole barrel. Not part of it. If it was only part, most of the rifle barrels out there could be called free floating.
Duh. 🙄
You have learned much young padawan 😀
The AF design is different, you could try to find a way to say the barrel is floating, but it just isn’t. The AF doesn’t have a receiver, so by definition it just can’t happen. Sure, you can say “what if we call this section of the frame the receiver?” Ok fine, what if I call the stock on my mosin part of the receiver? So now the barrel is free floating because the last 2″ doesn’t touch the stock. Yeah, I don’t think so.
Free floating means the whole barrel. Not part of it. If it was only part, most of the rifle barrels out there could be called free floating.
Duh. 🙄
RJ,
I see what you are saying but a free floated barrel is not suppose to be affected from changes in the stock or airtube.
The AF guns are subject to the stock influencing the barrel. So while it does look free floated from the bushing it really does not have the same benefits of a free floated barrel.
There is nothing wrong with how the AF barrel is set up. But people can get confused by certain descriptions.
Take a look at the Edgun. It also has contact in more place then the receiver. I wonder if it is claimed to be free floated? It does not say so on their website.
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Ding ding ding ding…..He has just broke his old record!
Now take your prize and have fun!