Which Is The Stronger Design?
Which has the stronger action, the Winchester/Browning model of 1886, or the Marlin 1895; .45-70 caliber? (I’m referring to current production models, i.e. modern metallurgy).
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So is there some technique for bedding a lever gun to improve accuracy?
well most single shots are in two piece stocks as well…
the two piece stock design does in no way mean inaccuarte
just means they need better bedding, something you don’t get on junky turn key factory guns these days
seen folks do far better at a 1000 yards with iron sights on a 19th century rifle then goofballs could with the best of optics on a their plastic stocked, investment cast crappola.
some can rock
most don’t
im not saying they suck by no means they do shoot good but in most cases they wont print like a bolt or single shot of equal value hell my first deer was with a 30-30 at 123yds just not like a varmint gun u know
Thanks RC and RS. That’s what I was looking for! I have no desire to make over pressure loads, but I am comfortable with maximum load data in actions that are designed for them.
40 yards! Hell, a pump action .22 LR ought to be good for deer at that range!
I concur with you Greg. My last deer was taken with a 30.30 Marlin Lever action at 80 yards while standing and off-hand. Right through the bottom of the heart with 170 grain factory Federal ammo. I was shooting for a spot just above the heart figuring that would be the correct drop at that range since I had sighted it in at 30 yards. My hunting is done from a stand in a forest clearing and it isn’t more than 40 yards accross or so.
Love that gun. It shoots great with the Bushnell Elite 3200 scope on it.
I’m used to shooting blackpowder, so I learned to be patient and steady since you only get one shot.
I need to shoot it more though, at my current rate, with 3 boxes of ammo at 20 rds each, it will be about 48 years before I run out. 😆 😆 😆 😆
I wouldn’t knock lever actions for accuracy…..when I took my 30-30 out for the first time with a group of friends was dared to try and hit a silhouette target that was 500yrds out from the benches where we were shooting from and it only took me two shots to hit it with open sights and factory Remington ammo…not that I would ever try to take game at that range with a 30-30 but they are more than capable of “minute of elk” accuracy …Greg
Marlin is a far stronger design than the 1886
this is true of both the antiques and the modern rifles as well
actually its kind of a joke to talk about modern metalurgy with these designs as even the true antiques from the late 19th century are capable of digesting incredibly potent loads.
Now as to strength…I have yet to see an 1895 Marlin with a cracked or blown frame but have seen quite a number of 1886 Winchesters that were quite beyond repair and it isn’t the vintage of the steel at play here its how the design really isn’t that suitable for those handloaders with serious cases of magnumitus due to its open top nature. Another point is I understand a fair share of the current production 86’s are made of investment cast bits…sorry, I’d rather trust a 100 year old forging than even the best of castings. Quality wise they are shit compared to the vintage Winchesters. Oh they look right purty but thats what they are built for, looking pretty for the Cowboy action shooting crowd
The 1895 can be had used for pretty reasonable, particularly in the .444 Marlin chambering which will break you feeding it. The action is smooth and you can mount a scope on it if thats your hearts desire
Other options for a magazine fed .45-70 and really the strongest out there are the old Siamese Mauser conversions. Those were classed as the strongest .45-70 action exceeeded only slightly by the Ruger single shots. With those you can handload safely in the .458 Winchester Magnum pressure range but expect only a couple reloads before you run into case head seperations.
The only true advantage to the 1886 is the ability to go to the .50 range such as the .50-110 or the newer .50 Alaskan. Can be done on an 1895 but more work. Still own a minty special order .50-110 1886 manufactured in 1898 complete with the single set trigger that was reworked by the factory in the 1930s that I used to use in informal BPCR shoots and the occasional hunt.
Anyways the Marlin is capable of impressive accuracy scoped as long as you can learn the trajectory of that fat slow moving slug and size your projectiles to the bore
I have had both in 45/70, several of them actually in rifles and carbines.
The 86 seems like it would be stronger looking at the design, twin lugs in the rear, but that can fool you, those lugs can be seen because that action is open in the top and the Marlin is closed.
And a lot of 348 winchesters actions are sprung from hot loads and the 71 is simply a more modern update of the 86, not as modern as the Japenese reissues, but pretty stout.
And at the same time the Marlin is known for having the ability to digest very hot loads and it is a closed design opposed to the open topped 86. God knows I put some blue pills thru my rifles.
All this is probably why you do not see custom 86 Winchesters chambered in 308, 338 and 450 Marlin.
For a carring gun while hunting the Marlin wins hands down.
I would go for the modern Marlin for strength.
Roachcreek
i have had both neither have ever broken and the marlin is super smooth in the 30-30 i had
Thanks Greg. I was hoping to hear from someone who actually had one. I suspect that the low recoil of the .45-70 is due to the fact that factory ammunition is light loaded so as not to blow up any original Trapdoor Springfields that their ammo might be used in. I think that factory ammo is limited to 28,000cup or less. Handloaded ammo can be loaded to higher pressures that take advantage of modern metallurgy and bullet technology. There’s actually a separate section in the reloading manuals for modern lever action rifles.
Thanks RJ. That’s a good point about lever actions not being as accurate as turn bolt rifles. I’m not sure that I am looking for tack driving accuracy. I am interested in a big bore rifle and I love the opportunity of the newly re-released 1886. However, the beauty of a Marlin is that I wouldn’t be so picky about scratching it up in the field.
I’m still curious if anyone knows which action is stronger.
Thanks guys!
there both well made guns i just have a problem with lever action guns they seem to have poor accuracy compaired to single shot or a bolt gun IMHP
my Dad has a marlin .45/70 and its hell for stout and feels solid when shooting plus it has little felt recoil…I have one chambered in 30-30 and love it but thats just my .02….Greg
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same as all dual tanged rifles
thru bolt going internally and threaded into an engineered plate between the tangs
this isn’t kitchen table work