Condor valve=CO2 valve a myth?Busted & solved!
I have heard this for along time, the Condor valve and the newer CO2 adapter valves are the same. And that the older CO2 adapters have the old Condor valve.
So I searched out a used but recently purchased CO2 adapter. I bought it and disasembled the unit and then disassembled the valve and attempted to do a valve mod on it by opening up the orifices and polishing the inside of the stem. I had a weaker valve spring from my Airarcher that I neglected to use, so I put it in, filled to 3000 PSI and stepped out the door with my chrony try it.
All shooting was done with 18 grain Exacts.
The gun would not fire, I adjusted the top hat all the way out and kept trying, eventually it shot in the 200 range and slowly climbed as I dry fired with and without pellets to 1000 FPS in about 50 to 70 shots, I did not keep track, then the stem broke.
That was 2 weeks ago. I ordered a new stem assembly: the valve seat, the valve stem and the top Hat from Airforce, just to make sure I had all the bases covered. So today I assembled it all together and tried it again, but this time I only filled to 2800, had the power wheel at 6.
First shot was 158 FPS, then it climbed to the 600 FPS range as I maxed out the power wheel and top hat, I had not ported this valve stem, but decided maybe it was the weaker spring, no reasoning there of course, common sence would dictate a weaker valve return spring means more velocity.
Nope after exchanging the valve spring, same impotent pop instead of the nice boom I was after.
Now this is definately a new Condor valve stem, spring and seat, the valve body looks just like my newer Condor valve in my Ararcher.
At it gets a rip roaring 600 FPS, just like a CO2 adapter would, hum ❓
So is the valve body different inside? I have no desire to waste more air and money on this project, I will compare it with my Airarcher valve if I ever tear down the Airarcher and remove the valve.
But to me it appears something here is different.
To recap, new style Condor valve body, two Condor stems, one brand new from Airforce, two different valve springs and still 600 FPS.
Has anybody out there sucessfully done this?
Am I missing something, are these parts the new Condor valve?
Post script:
I just got off the phone with AirForce, the brass base is different on the CO2 valve and Condor valve, all else is the same, $13.50 plu shipping for the part.
The brass base I have was removered by turning it with a # 10 Honda wrench with side force.
Lurker, you are a scholar and a gentleman.
Roachcreek ❗
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Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
I use needle nose pliers
Lurker,
No, of course they did not tell me that. But I had those parts already.
Yes I ordered the Condor brass insert.
Thanks again.
Roachcreek
RC,
You probably don’t want another CO2 brass valve guide. Did you order the Condor valve guide to replace the CO2 one ❓
Then, how about the nut and spring ❓ Did AF say there is a different set ❓ ❓
The only things the same may be the Valve Stem/Top Hat and the steel Valve Body. Just a guess there.
Let us know all the details when you get it converted.
Lurker, that was it, you had the solution, the brass base is different, it cost $13.50 aand is on it’s way.
RC,
Sorry, can’t find the bills. Had them out of the folder so often to send the AF pump back that they didn’t make it back to the folder. I haven’t been able to hurt my Hill pump with over a 100 consecutive pumps. I’m thinking about $15 for the brass CO2 valve guide.
I thing Marmot Militia makes a spanner for it but I haven’t had to take mine out of the steel valve body yet.
In my ancient memory I remember something that worked like a crescent wrench that had studs out of the side of the jaws. Oh darn, that was a tool for changing grinding wheels.
Maw,
No it works freely, I just ported the first one too much and weakend it, then I dry fired it too much trying to get the valve to work, thinkng it was valve lock.
The second stem, is surviving nicely and working freely.
At first I thought the stem was bottoming out on the valve retainer, but it has plenty of clearance, then I thought perhaps it broke because the spring was too weak, which it may have, but changing springs has no effect on velocity, or not enough to make it a Condor, 620 vrs 650 FPS
I am thinking Lurker may have the answer in that the brass insert is of a different dimension for the CO2 than it is for the Condor.
If the opening that the ports are exposed to is smaller on the CO2 brass insert, than it is on the Condor insert, it would restrict the air flow.
But yes the stem moves freely and it was my fault the first one broke, I simply removed too much metal.
If i checked my Condor valve that is on the Airarcher I suppose I would find the answer, it is just I am tired of getting my scuba tanks refilled and the drive to do it.
Perhaps a call to AF would anser this, if I could get past the girl on the front desk. I exsplained to her what I was trying to do, get a Condor valve from a CO2 adapter, and her reply was sort of like, “Oh well I don’t know.” then akward silence.
But you can’t expect more than that.
Roachcreek
The valve stem has to be binding or something to snap into.
I tried two different springs, my adjustments that I normally use on the TP is breech locked tight againt it, with zero play, when the bolt, Subssonnics, is in locked postition. So that stem has a lot of travel into the interior of the valve.
One of those springs is so light that I have to hold my thumb over the tophat on the intial fill to stop it from leaking until the pressure gets high enough to force the derlin seal into postion. The other spring, much stiffer, is the one that came with the valve.
Again if I switch tanks to the Condor valved Airarcher I get 1050FPS with 32 EJ’s, so I have to infer that it is in the valve.
Thanks all ideas are sincerely welcome,
Roachcreek
Maybe you need a different spring, or you are hitting the tp unsquare.
Lurker,
That is why I posted this to the world, something is wrong.
I wondered if it was the body, the stem is certainly a Condor stem, and that valve end is just like the new one in the Reference section and on my Condor valved Airarcher.
I might add, if all I trade tanks and valves with my Condor valved Airarcher, I get 1050 FPS with 32 grain EJ’s, so it is not the hammer/spring combo.
Do you remember what you paid for the brass valve guide?
Have you removed that guide, is a special spanner wrench used?
Roachcreek
RC,
I got a brass valve guide from AF that the bill said was for CO2. It is different from the Condor hi-flo valve guide. It appears wider where the delrin valve seats. Also, the hole for the valve stem is not as long. I believe this difference is to allow more volume for the larger CO2 molecule. I’m not surprised you had a valve stem failure.
I got the CO2 brass valve guide by mistake but decided to keep it for comparison and possible future use. Now I don’t think I will use it for replacement of the air valve. Probably would do fine to update an older CO2 tank.
I’m just guessing, but that’s my 2 cents worth.
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Maw,
Yes that would be a good option also.
Roachcreek