.257 POI Shifts FIXED
Hi All,
A Month ago I asked about what COULD cause this shift problems here and on GTA forum, and have today done same with IMPROVEMENTS….I designed the NEEDED BULL BBL as the MAIN THING NEEDED. i have added a DRAWN ALUMINUM TUBE (6061) the entire length of bbl from PW to muzzle tip….1.125″ dia. tubing. On top of Carbon Fiber Sleeve. Had to take about .008″ from sleeve and the BULL BBL is entirely epoxied on and is NOW STIFF……..These 2 mods were suggested a month ago and i incorporated. Broke with heat the screw loose on air stripper, and is in towards bbl as far as will go….Added a beveled HARD RUBBER part between Tank and STOCK…Added barrel weights to help tune the harmonics…Have 8 oz on now…..Spent many thousands of rounds on Match Rimfire tunning before………Pic of bbl end of gun, shows thin barrel, Carbon Fiber sleeve and the .250″ WALL of the drawn tubing… At 100 yds after finishing, I did shoot a 6 shot .553″ group and the thing DOESN’T throw shots all over now, or shift POI.
Today my friend and i reserved the high power range, which has matches at 300, 600, 800 yd distances… I shot the NRA High Power 300 yard center, prone from 300 yds with the .257. Scored 192 of 200 points. Dropped 8 points and had 8 X’s when the wind died some… Was 3-7 mph and i got the 9’s when wind up some….But High Power use .223, 308, 6mm tube guns and 30-06 to shoot this target and feel pretty good with and AIRGUN. The 2 pasters at 9 o’clock, the one closest to the 10 ring when target turned OVER the shot clearly touches the line for a 10 count.
Then we went back to the 600 yard line… Had a bench and we set a block of wood 20 yds forward of the pit Target frame holders so would have high and low DIRT clouds to see where the elevation was…..580 yds i hit 2 clays, and my friend hit 2 also… We missed a LOT but was hitting the wood block about 16″ long by 12″ high, or right around it….Used 3200 psi on NRA TARGET and 3500 psi at 580 yds…..
The pic of me at the 600 yd firing line looks forward at the big berm which is the 300 yd firing line…The clays are beyond that into the small little looking berm into the mountain which is the pit and 600 yds….Clays are in front 20 yards lasered at 580 yds……….A LONG WAY with AIR……………I have a CF 4500 psi bottle to put on gun with a Dyotat Valve when i get another and will start the 72 gr fp supersonic just to see how far this thing will reach out there….Also how much upsetting bullet flight, getting back into the transconic zone? If i can find a place that has big DIRT/CLEARED AREA to see the impacts, i believe 800 yds is very doable… But maybe only hit a SUV at that distance, but i am going to find out…….Click Pics to enlarge…………..Carl
All Replies
Where did you get the piece of aluminum? I’ve actually thought about doing the same thing, but never found an appropriate piece of aluminum in which to try it. What was the O.D. of the CF tube you used?
I wonder if I’d be able to get away w/a smaller O.D. piece of aluminum? I’m not going to be shooting nearly as far as you. Though occasionally shooting at 300 yards would be cool. I’d like to use an LDC, and would need some room behind the muzzle.
If you are OCCASIONALLY only going to 300 yds, and have a SHORTER BARREL, mine is 34″, you probably can get by very well with a bushing at the end of the frame….2″ into the frame, and 2″ outside? Just get a Round AL STOCK and on a lathe, DRILL dia hole for the barrel, and secure with the screw already there. I would permanently bond it to the barrel though. Will be fine…If for some reason had to remove, HEAT will break the chemical bond……….Doug clued me to this fact……
But if you want MORE, I get the AL TUBING at ONLINE METALS.COM The 24″ piece is $66 + ship and handling….. I got the 6061 T-6 AL, 1.125″ diameter tube. ID was .625″ and wall thickness is .250″….. The ONLY size that would work off the shelf….My CF tube over the bbl already epoxied on is .632″ dia……….Was easy at the gunsmiths with his belt sander with barrel adapter for polishing etc, to put little courser grit and take off the CF .007″ and slip inside nicely the TUBE……THEN COAT ENTIRELY WITH EPOXY and after it hardened, like a single piece…………Hope this helps you…………If you want more info, just ask…………GOOD LUCK in your quest……………..Carl
It is fun at the 100 yd range and unless someone has a very accurate RIFLE, the average stuff people shoot, i do way better with air. It is funny too…………….Thanks for the post….Carl
:dito: ++++++1 That! Oh brother can I relate! :dito:
Dontcha just love doing things a bit different or beyond the trends or conventional wisdom? Especially if it turns the big dogs upside down…. :8:
When I first approached my local gun range about shooting my air rifle there , everyone in the front office kinda just snickered behind my back. They kinda thought they would go along and humor or placate me…… When I paid my fees and signed the liability waivers, I drove out to the shooting lanes to meetup with the rangemaster for assignment of a lane.
First thing he asks, trying to keep a serious look upon his face .. “Are you the guy that wants to shoot the airsoft?” He points to a 25yrd action pistol range and tells me that I am in luck and should enjoy a variety of action targets! I explained I needed more range and he said if i could wait for a vacancy at their gallery….. I explained that I wanted as much range as they could give me…. They have a couple of rifle ranges that go to a hundred but he didnt want to tie them up with such nonsense. The 75yard right behind him had just opened up and I convinced him to let me shoot there.
He left me alone on the 75. I didnt see him again for at least an hour. When he did finally come back around I had to really pull on his leg to come over and take a closer look at what I was doing. Showing 1/4 inch groups at 50 & 75 along with showing off examples of the variety of cast bullets on hand seem to finally draw his curiousity. He hung out and helped relocate the shooting bench and all my stuff further back another good 35 or 40 more yards. This gave me close to a total of 125yrds to the target frames. After a topoff fill i put about six or seven onto the paper. Not really a great group but all scoring shots on a typical smallbore target. I topped off and let him give it a try. As he ready’d himself trying best to make of the unergonomic platform… A stupider than average ground squirrel ran across the center of the range at about 40 yrds and just stopped and stood still on his hind haunches near the side berm. The rangemaster swung off to the right and down, letting off the trigger. Damn lucky shot I say! A fast action shot with a high mag. scope and parallex!? He hit that squirrel in the shoulder, ripped off its right arm and leaving it doing a death spin of continuous circles, its head flopping all around hanging by a loose flap of meat. Similiar to a dying chicken. The bullet richocheted and zinged at about a 20 degree angle and hit the reinforced railroad tie safety barrier above the back berm nearly another 75 or so yards away . Ending with a resounding dull thud!!! :5:
He laughed his ass off and told me to be careful with that thing!
Nowadays, I most always get first choice of lanes. Seems like not alot of serious rifle target shooting happening here. The primary business here is Sporting Clays…
A number of range personal will find time to hang out for awhile when I visit the range, and appreciate giving air a try….
Often I am allowed to remain after closing hours to continue shooting my airguns. They consider my activity to be quiet drawing little or no attention outside of the area.
I rarely mention the word air rifle at the front office to avoid explaination to the uninitiated staff.
There still remains one of the original girls who recognizes me as that paintball guy. She has corrected herself from the previous recognition as that airsoft dude… Observant young lady, noticed the HPA gear in my truck! :rofl:
But yeah , I get a variety of interest and curiousity when other shooters notice me unloading my gear. Usually the Tripod with the chrono gets the intial glance and then the big rubber neck, double take at the airtanks! I had an alarmed guest comment to the range officer that he better go check me out ,,, :angrymob: He assumed I was going to be placing the cylinders down range as targets to shoot at!
I am told that this was coming from the tattletale that has showed up to the range with tv sets and other small appliance expecting to be able to shoot em up! :butkick: (Typical Turners Sporting Goods Black Rifle Crowd) DOH!
I almost was going to place one of those target decals on my bottles like a bumper sticker of sorts, kinda like a joke. I however decided against it,,, why take the chance that some yah-who turners rambo type lay sight upon them!
Ya know just in case ,,,, should I ever leave them unattended or I am out shooting somewhere in the field!
But yes indeed, as air riflemen, i believe that many of us practice a greater finesse and are often shooting on a greater level of sophistication. Often times it is so evidently pointed out when another uninitiated onlooking shooting enthusiast wants to know the all the usual stuff… How fast? How powerful? How far? HOW MUCH???!! THEN PROCEEDS TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE MADE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT he can buy a Ruger 10-22 & Mossberg 500 & Remington 700 AND still have enough change and talent to build 1/2 doz 80% autoloaders for similiar dedication and investment. :rofl: :1: :rofl:
MAN YA GOTTA LOVE THE ABILTY TO PUNCH HOLES ON THE PAPER AT 300 AND 600 YARDS!
Dayyummmmm!!!
Thanks for the informative post…….Yeah the people you meet at the range 🙄
“”MAN YA GOTTA LOVE THE ABILTY TO PUNCH HOLES ON THE PAPER AT 300 AND 600 YARDS!””
I am SOON going to try that 300 yd High Power Target again, this time using a bench at the END of the firing line, instead of PRONE…ALSO WAIT and try to call the wind for hopefully better score?
Then if that works out OK, i will go the the 600 yd line and shoot again, this time, instead of Clays at 580, and the wind isn’t really BLOWING to hard, i will have friend pull target and TRY and see what I can DO on the HIGH POWER 600 yd target at full distance. I WILL SHOOT a string of 20 shots??
Thanks for you post………..Carl
Fantastic post. I like the fact you bothered to let us all know how you got on and how you fixed your gun. After reading your post I’m going to further increase my barrel rigidity. Did you find that filling the air space in the gun with a giant bushing made it louder?
Where did you get the piece of aluminum? I’ve actually thought about doing the same thing, but never found an appropriate piece of aluminum in which to try it. What was the O.D. of the CF tube you used?
I wonder if I’d be able to get away w/a smaller O.D. piece of aluminum? I’m not going to be shooting nearly as far as you. Though occasionally shooting at 300 yards would be cool. I’d like to use an LDC, and would need some room behind the muzzle.
It is fun at the 100 yd range and unless someone has a very accurate RIFLE, the average stuff people shoot, i do way better with air. It is funny too…………….Thanks for the post….Carl
:dito: ++++++1 That! Oh brother can I relate! :dito:
Dontcha just love doing things a bit different or beyond the trends or conventional wisdom? Especially if it turns the big dogs upside down…. :8:
When I first approached my local gun range about shooting my air rifle there , everyone in the front office kinda just snickered behind my back. They kinda thought they would go along and humor or placate me…… When I paid my fees and signed the liability waivers, I drove out to the shooting lanes to meetup with the rangemaster for assignment of a lane.
First thing he asks, trying to keep a serious look upon his face .. “Are you the guy that wants to shoot the airsoft?” He points to a 25yrd action pistol range and tells me that I am in luck and should enjoy a variety of action targets! I explained I needed more range and he said if i could wait for a vacancy at their gallery….. I explained that I wanted as much range as they could give me…. They have a couple of rifle ranges that go to a hundred but he didnt want to tie them up with such nonsense. The 75yard right behind him had just opened up and I convinced him to let me shoot there.
He left me alone on the 75. I didnt see him again for at least an hour. When he did finally come back around I had to really pull on his leg to come over and take a closer look at what I was doing. Showing 1/4 inch groups at 50 & 75 along with showing off examples of the variety of cast bullets on hand seem to finally draw his curiousity. He hung out and helped relocate the shooting bench and all my stuff further back another good 35 or 40 more yards. This gave me close to a total of 125yrds to the target frames. After a topoff fill i put about six or seven onto the paper. Not really a great group but all scoring shots on a typical smallbore target. I topped off and let him give it a try. As he ready’d himself trying best to make of the unergonomic platform… A stupider than average ground squirrel ran across the center of the range at about 40 yrds and just stopped and stood still on his hind haunches near the side berm. The rangemaster swung off to the right and down, letting off the trigger. Damn lucky shot I say! A fast action shot with a high mag. scope and parallex!? He hit that squirrel in the shoulder, ripped off its right arm and leaving it doing a death spin of continuous circles, its head flopping all around hanging by a loose flap of meat. Similiar to a dying chicken. The bullet richocheted and zinged at about a 20 degree angle and hit the reinforced railroad tie safety barrier above the back berm nearly another 75 or so yards away . Ending with a resounding dull thud!!! :5:
He laughed his ass off and told me to be careful with that thing!
Nowadays, I most always get first choice of lanes. Seems like not alot of serious rifle target shooting happening here. The primary business here is Sporting Clays…
A number of range personal will find time to hang out for awhile when I visit the range, and appreciate giving air a try….
Often I am allowed to remain after closing hours to continue shooting my airguns. They consider my activity to be quiet drawing little or no attention outside of the area.
I rarely mention the word air rifle at the front office to avoid explaination to the uninitiated staff.
There still remains one of the original girls who recognizes me as that paintball guy. She has corrected herself from the previous recognition as that airsoft dude… Observant young lady, noticed the HPA gear in my truck! :rofl:
But yeah , I get a variety of interest and curiousity when other shooters notice me unloading my gear. Usually the Tripod with the chrono gets the intial glance and then the big rubber neck, double take at the airtanks! I had an alarmed guest comment to the range officer that he better go check me out ,,, :angrymob: He assumed I was going to be placing the cylinders down range as targets to shoot at!
I am told that this was coming from the tattletale that has showed up to the range with tv sets and other small appliance expecting to be able to shoot em up! :butkick: (Typical Turners Sporting Goods Black Rifle Crowd) DOH!
I almost was going to place one of those target decals on my bottles like a bumper sticker of sorts, kinda like a joke. I however decided against it,,, why take the chance that some yah-who turners rambo type lay sight upon them!
Ya know just in case ,,,, should I ever leave them unattended or I am out shooting somewhere in the field!
But yes indeed, as air riflemen, i believe that many of us practice a greater finesse and are often shooting on a greater level of sophistication. Often times it is so evidently pointed out when another uninitiated onlooking shooting enthusiast wants to know the all the usual stuff… How fast? How powerful? How far? HOW MUCH???!! THEN PROCEEDS TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE MADE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT he can buy a Ruger 10-22 & Mossberg 500 & Remington 700 AND still have enough change and talent to build 1/2 doz 80% autoloaders for similiar dedication and investment. :rofl: :1: :rofl:
MAN YA GOTTA LOVE THE ABILTY TO PUNCH HOLES ON THE PAPER AT 300 AND 600 YARDS!
Dayyummmmm!!!
Interesting concept eh???? These are after all barrel liners that are often being used in our air rifles!
Me thinks about oversized aluminum sleeving and then turning down… for a cosmetic touch you could flute the outer barrel too!
Yes the skinny bbl liner really needs to be strengthened if you are wanting stability with HIGHER PSI loadings…. I just chose a readily available commodity that did NOT require TRYING TO DRILL A HOLE 24″ long and used DRAWN TUBE to almost the exact sizing.
Cheers……………Carl
Yes you pretty much have it. There ARE NO BUSHINGS, and NO DIMPLES DRILLED into barrel with additional pressure of screws to hold said bushings in place…What a CRAP DESIGN set up for accuracy…ANY PRESSURE Like that induces UNWANTED stresses. It is a SINGLE DRAWN PIECE of AL from the PW to end of muzzle..Epoxied on and same as WELDED as not going anywhere……….BARREL IS STIFF and doesn’t walk now…..SIMPLE and effective….NO THE AL PIECE IS LARGER than the frame ID……..AL is 1.125″ dia. From end of frame to the power wheel, is turned to 1.080″ to slide INTO THE FRAME TIGHTLY but left 1.125″ from the frame end to barrel end…Then the already provided screw mounting holes, tighten to the frame easily….
Thanks, I am glad it is fixed from tossing shots so regularly……………………Carl
Thanks, I am aware of the match….Have no desire to compete anymore….Am now dialing back on F-Class and haven’t shot a match in months and i live 12 miles from an 800 yd range and 70 miles from a 1000 yd range that each have a match a month. I quit shooting ARA .22 Rimfire Benchrest, as it is 112 miles to match..I HATE DRIVING ANYMORE and Mesa AZ is 660 miles from me, and been there to the LAPUA TESTING FACILITY for tested MIDAS+ to get the best lots……The .257 would do great at that distance, and the desert wind would be the equalizer…..He who makes the least mistakes, reading conditions WINS. When all equipment is equal like F-CLASS. Top contenders anyway have equal equipment…
I have boxes full of trophies, plaques, badges, pins won over the years…That was THEN, and this is now and other than i have done it, they really mean NOTHING to me anymore…Several years ago i was going to CLEAN HOUSE and fill the garbage cans with all that crap…My wife said, “NO, you worked so hard for it, I will wrap in paper and box all of it up and save it.” Not sure where the boxes are even :biggrinn:
Doug told me he was going and great…..My toughest competition is ME, no matter how good i do at that moment, still not quite good enough…….Cheers……………..Carl
Interesting concept eh???? These are after all barrel liners that are often being used in our air rifles!
Me thinks about oversized aluminum sleeving and then turning down… for a cosmetic touch you could flute the outer barrel too!
So the aluminum barrel shroud runs nearly the full length of your barrel? As does your CF shroud? I’m assuming new bushing’s had to be made- aren’t they really thin? or was this Aluminum shroud basically made as a HUGE one-piece barrel bushing? i.e. the O.D. of the Al. shroud is the I.D. of the frame. Looks cool!! I’m glad the POI shift problem is fixed!!
you should go to AZ in oct, for the 2oo yard unlimited class
Thanks, but no bragging, it is what it is……….Better bring money as you CAN GET ONE From RANDY for half this red one….But I wanted BETTER and had some ideas of my own to incorperate. Everything on this gun and twice for machining with the gunsmith, JUST THE GUN I have $2100 in it….But who’s counting :suprisedn: …. Scope is another $500 on top but way cheaper than my MATCH RIFLES SCOPES……….Then the rests it is sitting on, but i had them competing in F-Class……..Just relating this for your knowledge in case you want to go full out?
It will get some better as I get better with SLOW bullets and air at distance………GOOD LUCK ………………Carl
is that one of those 1500$ rests/vise? what rear bag is that??
Sounds like a .22. Every time at the range, people see the tank, hoses and regulator and, come up and ask about it and take pictures. Front rest is a SEB NEO with JOYSTICK ADJUSTMENTS—TRICK and SMOOTH…….Takes a year wait to get one it is so good and demand GREAT….Had mine 2 1/2 years after the year wait and THEN, $1100…………Rear bag is Edgewood Mini Gator filled with HEAVY SAND http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/2980278168/edgewood-minigater-rear-shooting-rest-bag-tall-with-regular-ears-and-wide-stitch-width-leather-and-nylon-navy-unfilled?cm_vc=ProductFinding….Weighs about 15 lbs and front rest 28 lbs……
It is fun at the 100 yd range and unless someone has a very accurate RIFLE, the average stuff people shoot, i do way better with air. It is funny too…………….Thanks for the post….Carl
Mark
NO, Cedric is the movie maker……Sounds like a .22 rimfire shooting MATCH subsonic ammo…….When i crank up the speed to supersonic, sounds with a crack like a .22………..The red one with the airstripper is quieter than my black one without…Will have one soon on it too…..The pics i posted above were my friend with me and his PHONE…Thanks for inquiring……….Carl
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Thank You and glad you found it informative………Well Cedric and Doug and Others with their informative posts got me interested in AIR In January of this year, after about 60+ years of powder and competition……If what i do helps or makes a little easier to do their project, all the better….
The ONLY AIR coming from my gun is out the muzzle, as it was before the BULL BARREL PIECE…. Have no MODERATOR or want one….So with the frame all filled with Aluminum as a SOLID ONE PIECE BUSHING from the Power Wheel Forward, there is NOT A Noticeable difference in SOUND….It is QUIETER with air stripper and 34″ barrel than my other .257″ without the stripper and with 27.5″ barrel. But i will have same additions soon on this gun too, except not changing barerel……..
Thanks for the inquiry and compliment……………….Cheers…………….Carl