.457 or .458
What is the difference? I can get a Lilja .458 with a 1-14 twist. Will that work for a bigbore? LW has no plans on making .457 or .50 anytime soon. Another choice is those barrel liners but I can’t see having a .625″ OD barrel with a .457″ ID
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I recommend a 1 in 16 twist. I think there’s a reason that twist is appears so often in airguns. I also happen to have a few extremely accurate custom guns with barrels that are close to that spec. One of the guns is a .25 of variable but not huge power (gets up to about 55-60 FPE at the top end), another is a .32 bench gun that shoots slugs from 72 to 175gr and about 80 to 275 FPE, another is also .32 and has posted a bunch of sub half MOA groups at 100 yards and is accurate at several outputs (due to different weight slugs), another is a .62 that performs great and has gone as high as 850some FPE.
With slugs from just over the weight of .25 round ball to 650+ gr over a big range of the airgun velocity spectrum, and all from near 1 in 16 barrels…. Yup, I think I’m on safe ground recommending that twist.
I have no idea why anyone makes a .451 barrel. Doesn’t seem to match up with current bullet offerings but there’s a lot I don’t know. Maybe, it’s for oversize .452 bullets like RC was referring to regarding other guns or maybe you’re supposed to lap out a .001 polishing?
Anyway, we can size 220gr Raptors to .4515… 😆
Make Sence now I learned something new. Big bore no choke pellets chokr. What kinda groups are people getting at 100yards + with 308 and better
I would go with a .452 if they make it, Ruger uses a 16 twist on their revolver barrels, others like casull use a slightly slower twist, 1-22 or 1-20 I think, but they are much higher velocity and may be worrying about cast bullets stripping.
Marlin is said to use a much slower twist of 1-38, which was probably influenced by the Greenhill formula, the Marlin CB rilfe I had was superbly accurate. XP uses a 1-22 and itis very accurate.
RC
RC, Sorry, i meant more twist testing/variety in Big Bore AIR rifles. And your right, while HP’s work i too believe the FP/SWC bullet is the best choice.
Dyotat100, for a 3/4″ OD barrel i would say stick with the 28″. That’s gonna be one heavy puppy. Plus i think the 30 would stick wayyyy out the front of that gun and make is seriously front heavy. As far as twist rates go…..hmmmmm, really not sure on that one. my buddy installed a 1-16 LW barrel on his 308 and he liked it better than the 1-20. But he was shooting 308 cal 150 gr bullets. If your gonna shoot pistol type bullets then i think the 1-18 through 1-20 would work just fine.
Ok Douglas also makes a .451. So if I go with this they will turn it down to .750 OD and all I will have to do it machine it where the hammer and breech ride. What twist rate do you think would be best? Price is not bad, $233.00 plus shipping. Lilja barrel is $330 and 12 weeks wait.
Chokes are fine for pellets, in my opinion they hamper accuracy in large bores and cast bullet guns. My 25 LBT was never consistant until I cut that choke off, then it became a tack driver.
I like Jery would go with the .452 bore if this is only going to be used on a air rifle, especially in the Condor format. Your better staying in the 300 to 350 grain.
When I first got my Ranger, I wished it was a .458, but once I got Accurate molds to make me a 400 plus grain .452 mold, it did not make any difference, where the difference is if your buying bullets, the .452 is then the king of variety.
Jerry makes some damn accurate .452 bullets, and altho I find Mr Hollowpoint’s video’s entertaining in a far too much lead ingested way :lol:, hollowpoints are simply not needed in these 45 bores. I know a lot of folks will disagree on that, but show me your gut piles. Fact is a large metplate SWC, is and has always been far more reliable.
With air rifles like the XP where you have a valve that puts out a lot of volume 30 inches can get you a lot of velocity. I went with the 28 because it is far more man portalble in the brush.
Now bear in mind, if your turning that blank down, it will want to spring and warp on you when it gets smaller, that is why the major players use the barrel liners, they are already thin.
Douglas barrels are very good for cast bullets, they use a button so the interior is pretty smooth. You can buy a cut barrel and get it smooth if you have the maker lap it, but those barrels are a lot more expensive.
My30 inch full profile Krieger on my engraved Sharps Borschardt would do 10 shot groups at 200 yards under 3 inches, with the black powder fouling you get even using a blow tube, that is damn good, but for the first 3 shots, they would cloverleaf, and that was standing off of sticks. It was also with 83 grains of #2 Swiss and the Hocke mold, only took me about 7 years to get to that point.
I would love to have a larger diameter profile Douglas on my Ranger with that smooth interior, but the way it shoots right now, it would just be a unneeded expence.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Might as well get the 30 and just cut it if u want it shorter is there a choke?
Personally, I’d see if .452 is available. I think you’ll find a better bullet selection appropriate to airgun velocity.
Ok Douglas will make me a .458 in any twist I want. What would you go with? Should I go 28″ or 30″. Thanks
I found in BPCR barrels that 1-22 was good for 350 to 420 grains. This was Douglas barrel companies bread and butter for decades in this bore.
1-20 twist was used for a while for up to and slightly beyound 500 grain bullets, and if memory serves me right that was the twist on my Shilo, but then I get paid handsomely for my memory or the lack thereof.
1-16 was the one shooters were going to for the really big bullets.
Some compromise molds were used, the popular 457125 which is said to be a dupicate of the goverment bullet used in the 45/70/500 is actually what is called a bore rider bullet, It was cast at .458 for the shank but the nose that rode on top of the lands was .450. The difficulty was trying to get it right. Often they would not chamber because in sizing and bullet seating, the nose got expanded by the sizing pressure to .451 or larger and it would not chamber.
A lot of shooters using this bullet would have dark stains on their shirt tails from “sanding” the noses to get them to fit at the matches.
I used a Hocke tapered bullet and left three grease grooves exposed, it was long enough to do that at 550 grains, the bullet was tapered so that it was a press fit into the lands.
It was the Hocke bullet that gave me the idea on how to taper lead my .25 LBT Airsuper, as I call it.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Don’t really think too many variables have been tested in big bores when it comes to RATE OF TWIST. Seems everyone is in the same 1-20, 1-22 or 1-16 if ya got a LW 308 barrel. Don’t really know of any 1-14 big bore barrels out there.
But man, i sure wish there was more info on the R.O.T. for airguns and their performance.
Thanks. So is a 1-14 twist ok for air gun? That is the only twist they offer. I got the material today to make the second and third if needed attempt at your wheel.
Cast bullets for almost all the original black powder rifle cartridges that are 45 bore are .458 as are the smokeless offerings. Now if your going to shoot a jacketed bullet in a .458 bore like a 45/70 you would use a .457 bullet. Almost all those barrels are .458.
That is how things go in the large bores, a .357 uses a .358 cast slug, a .451 for a 45 acp uses a .452.
My Ranger 45 is a .452 so it can use over the counter handgun slugs.
Having said that my barrel on the Ranger which is a .452 liner and is just dead nuts accurate.
So a long story short, .458 is what you want Doug if your going to shoot heavy bullets, 350 to 420 grains or heavier, the .452 barrels will give you more variety because of all the pistol bullets made 185 grain to 350 grain.
Remember it takes a lot of air to push those bullets at any easonable speed. My ranger with a 275 to 280 CC tube uses 650 PSI per shot, so only gets two reasonable shots for heavy slugs with a 4300 PSI fill.
Odd man out is DAQ which makes some of his .451 for which there is no logical reason because that is the diameter of a jacket bullet and not a cast bullet.
Regards,
Roachcreek
What caliber has the best selection of slugs? Not interested in anything Mr Hollow point( Mr. +-.003″) sells either.
I can also get a .50 cal from Lilja.
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I wouldn’t doubt the 1-16 is better and would be my next choice if i could remove and replace the barrel on my Corsair. DAMNIT!!!
I agree with the JERMEISTER, go 1-16