A day at the range(100 yard)with my AAA .25 condor (photos)
I went to the range and shot a few groups with my AAA .25. Before considering my results, I just wanted to say that I did not have an ideal scope setup. I used my Tasco (older Japanese) 14x which is okay for 50, but for 100 yards I would have rather had my millet 20x. When shooting for accurate groups I like to clearly see the crosshair divide the circle in four equal parts before I break the trigger. With the tasco at 100 yards, this was not so. So next time I hit the range to test her, I will do so with the millet mounted on top. This rifle has more potential and I will prove that soon.
That said, I think things were not too bad. It seems the new pellet of “accuracy” for these .25 is the 25.4 gr kings (I would like to hear opinions on the “IDEAL” speed these pellets should be traveling at????), so I took a bunch of them along for the trip. I also took some 30.7 gr Kodiaks, and some 70 gr 7 rings by Jerry & Sons.
After I returned home, I ran some strings through the crony to see how fast they were moving.
At 50 yards, the best group I achieved with the kings was 1″ If not for that one flyer that would have been a 1/4″ group!
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At 50 yards the best group I got with the Kodiak 30.7 gr. was 1.750″ (that one in the bottom left was not part of the 5 shot group).
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At 50 yards, Jerry’s heavy 70.6 7 rings matched evenly with the kodiaks at 1.750″ (note: The POI for these heavy slugs was five inches lower than the lighter ones @50 yards, and 15″ lower @ 100 yards)
Now on to 100 yards (shooting four shot groups instead of five)
At 100 the bests the kings did was 2 3/8″ (that larger hole that is covered up to the left of the group is from one of the 7 rings, notice, they do not tumble! But we already knew that.
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At 100 yards the best the Kodiaks did was 4″ (sorry, I do not have a picture of that group)
At 100 yards the best Jerry’s 7 rings did was 3″ (That is a kill shot on coyote sized game at 100 yards away any day of the week. Keep in mind these 7 rings leave the muzzle of my AAA condor 24″ barrel at over 100 fpe. And as aforementioned, I by no means maximized the potential of any of these pellets that day.
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I ran some numbers today with the JSB 25.4 gr Kings
SP 2900
1100
1121
1121
1113
1112
1119
1115
1118
1110
1106
1102
1099
1098
1090
1085
1075
1080
1072
1064
1056
1048
1050
1040
1041
1034
1034
1026
1022
1022
End Pressure 2100
Thats a high fpe of 70 lbs and a low of 58lbs over a 30 shot string.
I can’t help but wonder if I can someday get my hands on a 30 or 32 inch barrel to really see what Jerry’s cans can do 😆 I’ve mounted the Millet today and I will get to the range soon if not after the holidays to report some more AAA. 25 condor group results.
I brought my BSA scorpion along in case I find any 10/22 shooters hanging around making fun of my “BB guns” That rifle shot 1/4″ group at 50 yards with JSB 16 gr and most powderburners don’t believe it till they see it.
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His post is clearly a collection of simplifications all applied to dimensionless criteria. Great Tom, go off and tune everything you can find to 900 FPS…it’s fucking magic!
😆 😆 😆
“Diana Magnum, 20gr, 1289 FPS, 73.8 FPE
Kodiak, 30.7gr, 1144 FPS, 89.2 FPE
Crow Magnum, 26.2gr, 1203 FPS, 84.2 FPE
Barnes 6 ring, 57.6gr, 922.1 FPS, 108.8 FPE (22% higher than the Kodiak)
7 ring, 66.9gr, 893.5 FPS, 118.6 FPE
8 ring, 72.9gr, 861.6 FPS, 120.2 FPE
9 ring, 84.6gr, 816.8 FPS, 125.4 FPE Avg. (the highest measured was 822.8 FPS and 127.2 FPE at the standard set-up)
The numbers above reflect a consistent set-up for the gun. I can’t say for sure that your results will be exactly proportional but I don’t see why they would not be either.”
The above is quoted from the original for sale post (still there). The weights have changed a bit as we’ve updated the design and the 8 rings are out of production but this should kinda answer your question…
Kind of figured that…When you say you pushed them as fast as you could, did you get a number? where they still subsonic? I am “ass”uming you were testing in the barnes??? Thanks.
I really can’t guess what an ideal speed would be without it just being a wild ass guess. I know that we saw excellent accuracy during test with the slugs going as fast as we could push them. Others have had great results going a bit slower. Too slow and they fall off… This is where you just have to experiment.
Okay, since we are talking muzzle speeds, Jerry, what would you estimate an “ideal” muzzle speed for a 7 ring and or a 9 ring out of a 24″ LW steel barrel? I would ultimately like to figure out a way to set up my AAA condor to shoot your slugs for the best accuracy on a higher fill pressure, and in the same “breath” be able to shoot the Kings on a lower fill pressure: Two distinct pellets shot from the same rifle with out having to mess with Top Hat each time I reach for one or the other. Pre-load and fill pressure only–if possible, that is.
Maybe better but “much” depends on your definition… Clearly, diablo pellets slow from 1090-1100 to 1050 and below almost instantly after leaving the muzzle. Your 100 yard shots clearly did not spend a lot of time unstable and veering off randomly. You might very well see a better group shooting a bit slower. It is worth a try. For some projectiles (maybe even these) you may not see a difference between 901 and 1090 muzzle speeds.
Considering what I discovered today about the speed of the JSB Kings being unstable above 1090…the groups above at 50 and 100 yards were fired at 1100 and even faster. So I assume that at a fps of 1050 they will group much better than the above results, correct?
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
If there is one thing certain in my life, it is that I will never take an aerodynamics or accuracy tutorial from Tom Gaylord.
His post is clearly a collection of simplifications all applied to dimensionless criteria. Great Tom, go off and tune everything you can find to 900 FPS…it’s fucking magic!
super sonic @ 3000 psi, but on the money more than Kodiaks, EJ’s and jerry’s surefire slugs. Of course the energy is nowhere equal to the bad boys, Jerry’s slug deliver gobs of balls and quite accurate. If you want to hunt larger critters’ go with the slugs at 40-50 yrds.
JSB’s are 46 fpe @ 30 yards with my rifle, not too shabby!
Jim
ON a 2800 psi fill on my TT condor, the kings go too fast to group well at a 25 yard target. They do best around 2400 psi in my gun which moves them around 1050 fps.
I take anything Tom Gay Lord says with a HUGE rock of salt!
My Kodiaks group just fine at 80 yards doing 980 fps.
It seems the new pellet of “accuracy” for these .25 is the 25.4 gr kings
(I would like to hear opinions on the “IDEAL” speed these pellets should be traveling at????) -SNIP-
here are Tom Gaylord‘s thoughts:
The magic of 900 f.p.s.
No doubt you know that diabolo pellets destabilize when they get up to transonic velocities. Transonic speed is defined as a speed just below and just above the speed of sound. That’s Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2, or about 880 to 1320 f.p.s., if you accept 1100 f.p.s. as the speed of sound. Because the sound barrier is a variable itself, it is impossible to give an exact speed that will always be correct.
Look at the lower velocity – 880 f.p.s. That’s the lower limit of transonic flight. Transonic flight is a speed at which the airflow over the body of a projectile is moving at supersonic speeds at some places and subsonic speeds at others. A barrier wave is created at transonic speed, and that wave causes flutter on a shape not designed to handle it. That flutter causes the projectile to wobble, which causes destabilization. Like it or not, the transonic range is the worst range at which to shoot a diabolo pellet. And because of its shape, a diabolo pellet slows down so rapidly when accelerated to supersonic speed that it’s into the transonic region soon after leaving the muzzle – even when the muzzle velocity exceeds 1400 f.p.s.! So, shooting faster than 900 f.p.s., is bad with domed diabolos all the time, and worse on days when the sound barrier is below 1100 f.p.s., because the pellet remains transonic for a longer period of time.
LINK to blog post:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/02/what-makes-pellet-accurate.html
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I found the JSB’s .25 cal to be the most accurate pellet so far in my TT Condor.
super sonic @ 3000 psi, but on the money more than Kodiaks, EJ’s and jerry’s surefire slugs. Of course the energy is nowhere equal to the bad boys, Jerry’s slug deliver gobs of balls and quite accurate. If you want to hunt larger critters’ go with the slugs at 40-50 yrds.
JSB’s are 46 fpe @ 30 yards with my rifle, not too shabby!
Jim
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Jerry,
You guys ever shoot any of your slugs from a short barrel, like a 12-14″?