A math question….
If we know the cc capacity of the air volume of the R3 Long, in .25 caliber, and we knew the resultant shot count, using a specific fps and grain pellet, therefore, using the same type valve in both Edguns, if we knew the cc capacity of the air volume of the R3 Standard in .25 caliber, shooting the same velocity and grain pellet, we could determine the shot count resultant from the R3 Standard in caliber .25
Might anyone have these numbers?
H 😯 😯 T
PS: Do we know for sure the R3 .25 caliber in Standard Matador even exists?
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Thanks for having my back Nik! 😆 😆 😆
Careful. We might start calling you “OLDGLOAT”
That’s a very good one 😆 😆 😆
Careful. We might start calling you “OLDGLOAT”
Friend Trygve,
I didn’t say the R3 Standard is the most efficient .25 airgun. I only said it seems to me extremely efficient for such a short and powerful bullpup. 40 JSB Kings flying out at those pretty consistent 890 fps from a gun with a reservoir of only 289 cc and fill pressure between 220 and 110 bar is not just ‘quite acceptable’. It is very, very hard to beat.
I also think that being made in Russia, the EDguns are used at much lower temperatures than the present -15 to -20 C 😯 in my country.
And I sincerely hope that someone else succeeds in producing a more air efficient, top accurate, consistent, reliable, lightweight and pointable .25 gun than the R3. Then I will certainly consider making a room in my gun cabinet for such a gun.
Cheers, Nik 🙂
Dear Nik,
I think I know what a regulator is. I also happen to have an AirWolf…. 😉
It’s how we interpret the word “regulated” I guess. In my world this would somehow include a mechanical regulator and NOT the electronics you may find in AW and friends. I must admit though that the AW shotstring does look like it comes from a “regulated” gun, and for the purpose of establishing “air-efficiency” I agree it does not matter.
“Air efficiency” in my terminology would be cubic inches/liters of air consumed per shot. Just like you measure gallons/litres per mile/km in a car. I guess we agree on the definition….. 😀
In my world, a comparison between two or more guns for a meaningful establishment of which one is the most “air-efficient”, would include an environment where all other variables are kept the same. Just like you measure petrol consumption for cars running at the same speed.
Even the very same gun would show different results with different climatic conditions. Try measuring in minus 20 degrees C versus plus 20 !!!
We (Egon and I) do this on a regular basis here while tweaking and tuning our HW’s (cal.22). As you know, he is making his own regulators from scratch. A lot of time is being spent on adjusting reg pressure up/down as well as other adjustements in order to find the maximum air-efficiency for a given pellet at a given speed.
Your initial suggestion that Ed’s R3s may be the most air efficient cal.25 rifles available, led me to believe we were talking about “commercially available” guns only. Hence my exclusion of rifles fitted with regs in the aftermarket. If you include the latter, – or “one-offs” submitted by blueprinters and gunsmiths like JB and others, – the landscape will change completely. I would have no idea which one is the most air-efficient.
Your suggestion may be correct, – but I simply don’t have data enough to confirm that………
Cheers
Trygve 😀
Dearest Trygve 🙂
Daystate Airwolf .25 is regulated via an electronic sensor system, while the rest of the guns I mentioned are regulated mechanically. As far as air efficiency is concerned it makes no difference whatsoever if a gun is fitted with a regulator at the factory or this is an after sales job.
A meaningful air efficiency comparison doesn’t necessarily involve “same pressure of fill, same speed of pellet, same temperature environment etc. etc. etc”, as you’ve put it. Air efficiency, as I understand it, is simply the equivalent of ‘mileage’ in cars; some cars are more fuel efficient than others. Period.
Here are the AE figures of my JB regulated BSA Lonestar .25 Special, compared with the results of the .25 Matador R3 Standard (which I calculated on the basis of the data disclosed to me by Ed, and some info from his site).
BSA Lonestar .25, shooting 31.02 gr Baracudas:
avg FPE/cuin per shot – 1.13
avg bar-cc/FPE per shot – 14.5
avg FPE per shot – 52
avg PSI used per shot – 70
EDgun R3 .25 Standard, shooting 25.4 gr. Kings:
avg FPE/cuin per shot – 0.92
avg bar-cc/FPE per shot – 17.8
avg FPE per shot – 44.9
avg PSI used per shot – 40
Cheers,
Nik 🙂
PS. My analysis tells me that while the Edgun has the advantage of being the more air efficient of the two, my Lonestar is capable of utilizing the considerably heavier 31.02 gr. Baracuda with an extreme accuracy, which is a great asset for my specific (and ‘classified’) needs. Therefore I definitely have room in my gun cabinet for a very air efficient, very accurate, and very pointable .25 gun, utilizing the lighter 25.4 pellets. Let’s hope it won’t be long before I can have the same “fun” with the R3 .25 Standard as you are having with your EDguns.
Dear Nik,
DS AirWolf is NOT regulated as I understand it, unless something has changed very recently……..???? 🙄
“Drop in” regulators could be supplied to a lot of guns, – but that’s “cheating” in this perspective….
Standard production lines would include those you mention (apart from DS).
Have you seen side by side comparison tests of the guns involved ? If so, please lead me to it……… 😀
A meaningful comparison would involve same pressure of fill, same speed of pellet, same temperature environment etc. etc. etc.
I have seen nothing like that, – so I would be hesitant to conclude without the facts………. 😉
Cheers
Trygve 😀
As far as I know regulated .25 airguns are currently being factory made by Daystate (Airwolf), FX (Elite, Royale), EDgun (Matador) and Cometa (Lynx). Theoben produces a drop in regulator for their .25 models and there are plenty of regulated Rapids around. BSA does not make regulated .25 guns except for the ones custom fitted by John Bowkett or someone else.
There are also plenty of .25 airguns which have been fitted with regulators produced by independent companies like Ondrei Plachy and others.
The air efficiency has nothing to do with the size of the air reservoir and it shouldn’t be mixed up with shots per fill.
Here is a site for an online air efficiency calculator, although some more ‘exact’ shooters like Yrrah may be using different ones.
http://calc.sikes.us/1/index.php
🙂
I am yet to see or hear of a .25 airgun efficiency that comes even close to the R3 Standard.
30 shots/25.4 gr./950fps = 50+ fpe
40 shots/25.4 gr./890 = 44+ fpe
😀
FX Royale Elite & 500 w/reg will do 90 shots @50+ FPE with under 15fps extreme spread, but it does have a 500cc bottle. source
30 shots/25.4 gr./950fps = 50+ fpe
40 shots/25.4 gr./890 = 44+ fpe
😀
I may have one of my usual “black-outs” (Alzheimer is moving in !), – but from the top of my head I cannot think of any other producer with a regulated PCP in cal .25 apart from FX and BSA……. 😳
So how do you compare ???? 😉
“Quite acceptable” 😯 😯 😯
I am yet to see or hear of a .25 airgun efficiency that comes even close to the R3 Standard.
30 shots/25.4 gr./950fps = 50+ fpe
40 shots/25.4 gr./890 = 44+ fpe
😀
There is at least one on it’s way!
Thank God for our friends in Eastern Europe.
Those are quite acceptable results for a Standard Matador pumping out serious FPE.
Makes me wonder if any will ever make it to the U.S.
H 😯 😯 T
It’s about 40 shots with standard .25 R3 at 890fps.
I have a friend that can confirm but I guess oldgoat is to smart not to calculate for you precisely.
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Any time, Younger Old(?)oat 😆 😆 😆