Q:

AA S410 mods

I spoke about these mods in sacshooters thread here:
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7011

Pictures were requested, so here they are.

First, I glass bedded the stock and action. This was done by removing the action from the stock, and filling all the openings (guage, stock bolt hole and trigger group hole) with clay.

Then I aquired a 1.25″ aluminum tube, and coated it with the release agent from a Brownells Acraglas kit. Then I mixed the glass, poured it into the stock, and clamped the aluminum tube into the stock. The 3 clamps were applied on the grip end, right above the bolt hole and between them. This was to keep the action level and keep the pressure vessel as high in the channel as possible.

Once it was cured, I popped the tube out, and cleaned the clay out of the holes. Some minor trimming was needed around the edges of the holes.

After testing, I relieved the channel where the tank lays, so the tank is free floating.
The result

The pic shows some dots in the channel, these were drill holes I put in to give the layer of epoxy something to grip. There are more in the unrelieved area.

Closer of the action

I pulled my old shroud off to fix a failed o-ring, and decided once it was apart to build another shroud for it.

I rolled a carbon tube at work using some scrap material. This is 2×2 Twill woven carbon. It is .75″ID and .815OD, thin walled but still extremely strong. This exact layup is used for kayak paddle shafts.
The tube weighs about 3 oz.

I then bought some brass bushings, .75″ OD and .5″ ID, and some more .5″ OD x .25″ID. These were 1″ long. Pressed them together, then machined the ID to .393 and .479. Cut them to .375″ in length.

The .375″ was fluted deeply to allow air to pass around it, and was pushed into the tube about 8″. The .479 was fluted the same, and pushed .25″ into the other end. These served as alignment bushings for the tube. The barrel diameter is .478 with a .392 section at the muzzle.

I installed the tube over the barrel, and when the .393 bushing went over the barrel, the shroud had to be pushed on about another inch to position the bushing. (if you remove your shroud, you will understand what I mean).

The shroud tube and .479 bushing was drilled and tapped. A 10/32 grub screw was used to hold the shroud onto the barrel from the breech end. The screw can just be seen below the scope.

Baffles were created by using special washers I found at ACE and McMaster Carr. The thick washer near the bushings in the pic were from ACE, the thinner ones have a .281 hole in them, and came from McMaster.
The springs came from ACE.

Muzzle end. This is a test piece, so some of my install methods are in testing. The barrel band does not fit this tube, so I created one of sorts from a windsurfing mast ferrule. A thin section was glued to the shroud, and grub screws hold it in place. The thin beads of silicone are keeping it from rotating out of alignment while the glue dried. I havent pulled the silicone off yet, but it will come off easily (I tested in an inconspicuous spot LOL)
I have a few chunks of delrin that will make nice outer keepers and a barrel band for the tube. I will be making them when I make the next shroud.

The endcap is another brash bushing, the flange is ground to the OD of the tube and painted black. I already chipped the paint by pulling it apart once to fix a clipping issue.

No pictures of the trigger/washer setup. I didnt want to pull all that apart again.

Other Guns

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😯 Oh yeah!

Thats fucking awesome! 😉

Wierd, I posted followup pics last night… where did they go?

Anyway. This is after preliminary gluing, only used enough to get it stuck together. Final gluing will be done off the rifle so I dont end up with a permanent mod… that would suck.

Before

After

And nope, the beer bottle is not the same one LOL

quote Yellow Ninja:

Good work Riff,

I’d decided against drilling the CF shroud you send me because of the hassle I had trimming carbon arrow shafts down, worried about splintering.

Just wondering if there was anything special you did when drilling and how the material behave’s

Drilling CF is a pain in the butt. You have to use a very sharp bit and let it drill slow. If you try to force it, it will deflect and drill at an angle you dont want.

I use a good vise on a drill press and thats about it, just proceed very slow.

The biggest reason I dont just glue together is I want to be able to pull it back apart.

I just finished a second prototype on the 410. So far it seems very solid but its not really pretty. The woven is mis-matched, 2 different types.

Took a section of 1.25″ ID tube and slid it over the air tank. I had to grind one side very thin so it would fit between the shroud and tank. Then I just ran a small bead of black epoxy between it and the shroud. 2 grubs thru it and the peice I used for a barrel band.

Just an idea I had to see if it holds the shroud consistant. Pics later if it works. If not, no pics LOL.

Damnit, there you go again RIFF 😡 Stop showing off, will ya? 😛

I’m joking of course, sort of 👿 I wish I had the talent some of you guys have, great stuff there. Beeeeeeeeeeeaaaauuutiiiiifulllllll 😀

Good work Riff,

I’d decided against drilling the CF shroud you send me because of the hassle I had trimming carbon arrow shafts down, worried about splintering.

Just wondering if there was anything special you did when drilling and how the material behave’s

That looks great Riff 😀

quote Rhoderman:

Wow Riff! Impressive as can be!
Thanks for posting all that. I appreciate the glass bedding part in the stock.
Beautiful work!

No problemo. Thats how we roll around here. -pun intended.

Wow Riff! Impressive as can be!
Thanks for posting all that. I appreciate the glass bedding part in the stock.
Beautiful work!

If you dont have some expensive equipment, you cant roll a CF tube.

Basically a precision ground rod is used for a tool. The tool will have about .002″ taper over a 120″ length. In other words, .749″ on one end, and .751″ on the other. This tool is coated with release agent.

Next carbon patterns are designed to make the tube. I wanted a 30″ so I could have the ends sawed off and still have a good section of tube to work with. My patterns were 2.8″ wide by 30″ long. This wrapped around the tool twice. Then I put 2 more on at 2.125 and 2″ respectively. These 2 did not go all the way around the tool, and left a gap about .25″ wide. This give me a clearance channel so it would fit the gun.

After the carbon is rolled, you use a cellwrapping machine to wrap it in tape. Its basically a lathe-chuck, and it spins the tool and slowly moves across the tape dispensing rollers. The rollers are causing tension on the tape, so it wraps very tight on the tool. The tape wraps around the tool 8 times per inch.
The tape acts as a mold shell. Material soaked in resin starting to get hot trys to expand, and oftentimes will break the tape. If the tape breaks, a huge bulge in the tube occurs, and the resin runs out of the material. End result is a crappy useless tube.

Once taped, it goes in an oven at 265°F. for 1.5 hours to cure the resin system. Our material has the resin system already infused in the material.

Once it comes out of the oven, a hydraulic press is used to pull the tube off of the tool. A collar goes over the end of the tool, and the collar butts up against the tube. If all goes well, the tube breaks free from the tool and slides off. If not, the tube “accordions” itself and you cut if off and start over.

Once its off the tool, you just unwrap the tape from the tube, cut to lenght and there you go.

Nice work 8)

Great work mate.How do you roll CF?I’ve never worked with it and I want to make a shroud for my MFR.

Bob

RiffRaff

Great post, thanks

Roger

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