ATF asked if Silencer is OK on airguns
We have not heard Silent Hunter for awhile but while looking through YouTube I came across this video he made.
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I don’t think it illegal, as long as you’re not using that record for anything stupid, this is just information.
Pretty sure it IS illegal to record without the other partys consent.
It was a legal recording!
What happened to you Rodney? Where have you been?
I did not relize that this video was still public. I had posted it once before in a post and then it was to be removed. I agree that we should not draw attention to this topic.
I don’t think it illegal, as long as you’re not using that record for anything stupid, this is just information.
Pretty sure it IS illegal to record without the other partys consent.
It was a legal recording!
well u have defintly given us some good info but how many cops know how loud a condor is and that the shroud is a silencer.im not sure but they probly dont know the difference now if it is a screw on i might be worried
LOL…were it so rj
were it only so…
Just because a product is being manufactured and even advertised and freely sold in no way means ATFE will not prosecute an end user later in possession of that very same product.
Great example are pre November 1st 81′ DIAS, {Drop In Auto Sears} for the AR15 that are still being sold in the Shotgun News classifieds. ATFE knows these are out there, in fact there has been judicial precedent set in at least one district that ATFE lacks authority under either the NFA or GCA to grandfather anything they decree illegal!
Regardless individuals do get prosecuted for possession
no it doesn’t make sense but thats the way the feds have always operated.
I do feel the shrouds as applied to the Airforce guns are less of an issue than the threaded or set screw mods but that said speaking as a Devils Advocate all the FTB lab would need do is wrap the barrel of a test .22RF firearm with tape or make a custom bushing and have it work for just one shot wear there is a one decibel reduction in report and you have a prosecutable crime you likely will not walk from.
As yet this hasnt happened
just saying it easily can
i could see that with a screw on or a set screw moderator that fits on barrel only if made with all metal components but a complet shroud should be legal im sure if it was illegal talon tunes and airhog wouldnt sell them
Thats the devil rj…
you are of course absolutely correct…ATFE has no authority to regulate AGs under either the NFA or the GCA
moderators are a whole new can of beans as any device which can be affixed to a regulated powder burner…even if its installed with duct tape and the moderator self distructs…that reduces the report of the test firearm ONE decible is a silencer
no you dont have to have a firearm present as a moderator, fuck even any component of said moderator is ruled by ATFE as a “firearm”
Our defense is intent
as the intended use is to reduce the report of something outside the definitions of the 1935 NFA or the 1968 GCA as long as its somewhat intergrated its pretty safe. Its even more safe if you have no regulated firearms under your control.
or should be anyways
Here was a case from a few years back
real shitty deal…
SPRINGFIELD – A federal jury yesterday found Michael A. Crooker guilty of a firearms crime that will mean a 15-year mandatory prison sentence.
The jury, made up of eight men and four women, delivered its verdict shortly after 2 p.m. yesterday after deliberating about 10 hours during two days.
Crooker, 51, formerly of Agawam, had been charged with being a previously convicted felon “causing a firearm to travel in interstate commerce.”
Crooker was accused of trying to mail an air rifle and sound muffler to an Ohio man in 2004. Air rifles are not considered firearms under federal law, but silencers that can be used on regular guns are. Testimony during the trial centered on whether the black metal cylinder mailed with the air rifle qualifies as a silencer and therefore a firearm. Felons are prohibited from owning firearms.
The jury yesterday morning came back to Judge Michael A. Ponsor with a question, basically asking for more of a definition of a silencer under federal law. Ponsor told them he could not give any more of a description than had been given in his jury instructions.
Crooker sat silently and without obvious expression beside his lawyer, Vincent A. Bongiorni, as the verdict was read.
In an interview after the verdict, Bongiorni said that there is not much to say about a verdict from a jury. “It was tried on a factual basis,” he said.
Sentencing for Crooker was set for Oct. 20 at 2 p.m. Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin O’Regan said after the jury’s decision that he is pleased with the verdict.
In closing arguments on Monday, O’Regan told jurors they should have no question Crooker shipped the sound muffler knowing it was capable of being used on a regular gun.
Bongiorni said in his closing arguments that jurors cannot conclude that Crooker knew the muffler could work on anything but the air rifle. He said he defied the jury to find any evidence that Crooker had actual knowledge that it could work on a powder-burning, or regular, gun. The trial began on June 28.
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thats right sports fans the precident has been set
rj,
That wasn’t a friend, that was an acquaintance.
A buddy at work told me years ago, you have a lot of acquaintances but very few friends.
On second thought, he was an asshole!!
well the way i see it the atf doesnt regulate air rifles or muzzelloaders i know of this cause these r the only guns i can hunt with.fellons cant own firearms.u can look this stuff up on there websight in the laws and codes book BTW me beeing a fellon was a stupidass friends fault he asked me to stop somewere for him and he went inside and robbed them he said he was goin inside to talk to someone
Best to let sleeping dogs lie. Keeps you from getting Bit! 😉
Yeah I know what your intent was…LOL
I just want to discourage folks as much as possible from following in this cats footsteps and rocking the boat too much…
FTB is WELL aware of the AG moderator issue and have been since the mid 70s when Parker Hale .22 AG moderators were being legally imported and sold. Problem was the unit differed not one iota from the .22LR PH can and Very Few were ending up on AGs needless to say…LOL
ATF back then stopped their import
a great deal of this is based in the intent doctrine…ie: intended use
the devil tho is constructive possession doctrine.
example…a two liter pop bottle is intended to hold a soft drink
duct tape it on a .22 and its now legally an unregistered silencer
years ago SWD among others manufactured pop bottle adapters for the MAC series of SAPs…screw the adapter on your barrel and a 2 liter pop bottle on the adapter…good for a shot or two
ATF FTB classified that just the adapter itself constituted an NFA violation.
in one of the most ridiculous rulings FTB classified a damn shoe string as NFA after a few dodos asked whether using a shoe string tied to the bolt handle of an AK or SKS than ran thru the lower sling swivel ad tied to the trigger was legal!
Oh I have many stories regarding this crap…LOL
anyways wasn’t on your rear what so ever as I know you know better!
Riverside, your feelings about silencers are similar to how I feel about all the exposure we’re getting on the airgun T.V. show. On the one hand I like it, on the other, I fear it will wake the sleeping tiger.
Jim,
I just posted the link for info and entertainment.
The Govt. can make anything illegal including a shoe, ring or making a finger gun and pointing it at someone.
If they are aware of “Finger Guns” then they are aware of airguns with silencers.
People need to simply cease asking ATFE questions…
Here is the problem WOK
1st off most Dumdums contact their Regional office
these people can make no determinations PERIOD…that’s done through the written ruling process at FTB, {Firearms Technology Branch}
2nd most Dumdums formulate their questions wrong which ends up doing Everyone way more harm than good.
3rd, And this one is the BIGGIE…even if you get an ATFE clearance letter from FTB they can change their minds at ANY time down the road. This has happened Many Many times with regard to things that were non issues in the past and even certain products that were cleared by FTB and a handful of months later they decide the other way…{see Atchison Accelerator stock for Ruger 1022 or MKS M14 rebuilds just to start}
The worst part about all this is the more Dodos that ask the same question the more it spotlights certain non issues raising them to ATFEs attention.
Seen this for years in the firearms world, most particularly among certain morons in the Class 2 & 3 NFA crowd. These assclowns created a large number of new bad ATFE rulings simply by asking dumb question over and over of FTB because they wanted to collect letters
Worse part about ATFE FTB rulings is that even on the rare chance you get a positive one it Only Generally applies to who its made out to.
This is what happened to the Accelerator stock…the manufacturer had an ATFE FTB written ruling but that wasn’t good enough for some dildos who went off on their own to FTB and requested their very own letter! This in short order spotlighted the product, the original ruling was over ruled and the stock was classified as NFA unless you removed the spring and sent it in to ATFE!
I realize folks want to cover their respective assholes but in the end I promise you this will lead to no good
I apologize for my tone but this crap always twists my dick the wrong way.
Took a long time for the NFA crowd to accept some questions are better left unasked…
Pretty sure it IS illegal to record without the other partys consent.
Shit 1/2 the stuff we do everyday is illegal. 🙄
True Dat!
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I have been working at work and working on a new project in the garage. I am building a 1948 willys flat fender from the ground up, and I have not been spending alot of time on the computer.
Spring turkey season starts up the end of this month, and I will be putting my condor to good use!