Condor Mods & Operation?
New CondorSS owner interested in quiet, accurate, reliable shots. Two mods that Tony recommended are the Condor Hammer with Slap Mod End and the Quick Change Top Hat with Restrictor Inserts. But I’m not particularly mechanically minded and definitely don’t want to risk gun damage so as I read various posts about things like “tank dumps”, “hammer cocking issues” and other post mod problems I’m wondering…
Are mods like these a good idea for the average shooter?
Or more potential trouble than benefit, especially given cost?
Also would be interested in learning more about the design and operation of the Condor which might help answer, or at least better understand, mods potential/value questions.
Can someone please point me to, or explain, functional details of AirForce components such as;
- 1 – Hammer
2 – Power Wheel
3 – Top Hap
And how all these parts play into accuracy, noise and use of air.
Thanks,
Bob
Rochester, NY
All Replies
There must be some design logic behind the AirForce choice of ~67 gram Hammer weight.
What are the DISADVANTAGES of a heavier hammer?
I put the quick change top hat in my Condor 25 before I even shot it. The smallest insert gives me ~40 shots and lower noise (mine is not baffled). Installation was a piece of cake after watching the video. Slightly more complicated than changing a light bulb.
If your looking for high shot count id go talon tunes qc top hat and the smallests restrictor. No matter what your looking to do the qc top hat is probably the first mod id recommend. The 95 gr hammer with slap mod is a good one also. Take out the hammer weight when you install it. I left mine in and then had tank dump and cocking issues. When you do mods turn the power wheel to 0 then test your gun to get a base then mod it and leave it at 0.
You can tune it with washers under the top hat. I have ran my gun from 500 fps and about 20 fpe to over 90 fpe. 93.67 fpe is my max so far in 22 cal.
I can tell you tony knows what he is talking about when it comes to these guns.
Now if you want to quiet it down go with the talon tunes shrouds. That thing is amazing and the videos proove it. I have tested it inside and out from 40 fpe to over 90 and it is insane how it quiets the gun down.
Good luck and keep us posted!
Great questions! You are on the right path! The advantage of Tony’s one piece tophat is that it doesnt have the habit of coming loose and is easier to tune than the airforce valvestem tophat . It is also much more solid and less chance of getting beat up or malformed. You just adjust the flow with the restrictor. The restrictor reduces the volume of air but also creates more back pressure that also reduces the dwell of the valves open duration. By adding more spring preload we are wacking the valve harder and opening it wider allowing more air and longer duration .
The stock AF tophat is adjusted in or out to lengthen the amount of stroke and dwell that the valve opens when struck by the hammer. The greater the weight of the hammer the more mass and inertia is transferred to strike the valve open. The fine tuning of lengthening the stem with the adjustment of a threaded tophat does work well too, especially for very fine tuning. But it is prone to coming loose and a little adjustment has big effect. Most custom purpose built guns have custom made one piece tophat / stems for the application.
As for hammer and trigger relationship. I would assume that the hammer isnt properly fitted into the gun or is too long and binding the spring… It may be a problem with the shape of the face and how it contacts the sear???
As you can imagine, there is alot of variables and some subtle and not so subtle ways that the parts all interact to the overall effect of everything else…
Quieting the noise the first thing is figure out what the least and most acceptable power level you will want to shoot at and then work at reducing air consumption at that level. Alot of air is wasted blowing out the end of the barrel making more bark than it efficiently should.
I am no expert and there are many with much better understanding than myself but I think you are wise and on the right track, in the quest for knowledge. You may wanna also try reading up over at the gateway to airguns forums too . They have a few more technical topics than we have here. As you noted that the tutorials here are more installation guides. Keep on searching . Knowledge is like a drug,,,,, you are going to keep looking for the good shit and will spread your hustle around to find it. :2cents:
Thanks for the reply and feedback.
I have watched many of the TalonTunes tutorials but most seem to be about installation and don’t generally cover theory of operation. And I do have the Condor and shot it quite alot, not a thousand rounds but enough to know it’s too loud – So I began searching for solutions, easy mods that would help quiet the rifle without affecting power or reliability.
And I don’t doubt that the TalonTunes mods are well made. But they aren’t cheap and I’d like to understand “How” a mod is operating to help determine if worth the money for my purposes.
For instance, let’s consider the TT “Tophat”, which as I understand it’s design restricts air to the barrel. Some questions that come to mind – How does this differ from, or relate to, using the “Power Wheel”? Seems to me that inserting a “restrictor” that reduces air would also waste air IF the Power Wheel is not adjusted.
Or “Why” are some shooters apparently experiencing cocking trouble after installation of the TT “Hammer w/Slap Mod”? Other than the weight difference, Is this replacement Hammer exactly the same size/shape as the original?
And how do either of these mods affect AirForce warranty?
Thanks again,
Bob
Bo3B,
Tony makes some of the most reliable aftermarket products that have gone the distance with many units sold and a history of use by many, many, many satisfied users.
I would say that these products do fulfill a usefulness when applied as a solution to an overall complete specific tuning.
You are wise to be doing your homework and learn the function and nuances of each component of the modern PCP air rifle and the specific application of your Airforce Air Rifle…
There are many tutorials here to study….. But I will say that reading and writing about things can greatly educate you. However at some point everyone will need to back up that knowledge with experience.
You have the Rifle? Airforce manufactured it to be ready for use right out of the box.
I have suggested this before,,, that a person should spend a decent amount of intial time just shooting and enjoying their rifle. Use and ENJOY for awhile. Get lots of trigger time and become familiar with it. Sometimes ya just gotta Do-it! The gun was designed to shoot well for a great majority of circumstances. Once you spend time shooting it , you can better ascertain what you feel works and doesnt work for you! These rifle are so adaptable to personalize and can do so many things. What works for me might not be desirable to others. When you know where ya wanna go Tony will be a great resource to help you get there.You are best off putting in an order with Tony for a case of pellets and after shooting a few thousand rounds , decide what you want to add from Tony with your next order of pellets. 😀
I’d start with Tony suggestions, there is plenty of DIY videos posted here in the forums, and he’s pretty good about helping yea via phone.
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There must be *some* downside to a heavier hammer…
Again, otherwise why would OEM choose designed weight?
Maybe greater recoil which could affect accuracy?
More wear and tear on internal parts?
The TT web product description for “Hammer w/Slap Mod” suggests lower friction as advantage but this seems due to “guides” and mentions nothing about logic behind weight increase. And from what I understand, reduced noise is related to “plastic” addition to hammer that impacts some part of rifle.
Anyone tear down an AirForce rifle to inspect internals, including hammer parts, after significant shots with a heavy, non-standard hammer?
Thanks,
Bob