Condor valve and spring assembly
First off I know there is some topics here on polishing the valve and parts! I could go on with a long story but will keep it short for now. I made a new one piece top hat for my Condor following the original one down to the thousands of an inch on every dimension. put it back in and had it out a couple times to polish up things after I knew my fps was staying around the same as the stock top hat. took the valve out of the bottle this time to check the oring, and I am glad I did, some tears and flattened out a bit so this was a good thing. while I had it off I took off the brass nut for the spring on the valve, I noticed it was not tight but after getting it off there was some blue locktite on it which I have found on an SS I took apart a while back. so cleaned everything up did a bit of polishing to the end of the brass nut and put it all back together. Now for my question the brass nut I am thinking might have been a half turn out at the most maybe not even that, so I went ahead and snugged it up, put the top hat back in like I did the last couple times looked good dry fired it like I did before I ran some over the chrony and the fps jumped up quite a bit it was doing around 940 now it is at 970 or there abouts! For some reason I can’t remember if you put more tension on the spring is that going to crank up your fps and if you back off it will slow down some? that is my question, I have no problem taking it off and doing that but would like to know what you guys think? would putting a little more pressure on that valve spring make it shoot faster? thanks Eddie 😯 😯
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I can run 18 grain at 930, which is very accurate with 34 foot pounds, and 32 grain at 980 wtih 68 foot pounds with less accuracy but i have shot 1/2” at 50 yards at this level wtih the stock hammer and polished and modded condor high flow valve.
the 21 grain kodiak shoots great at the low 900’s with 40 foot pounds of energy with stock condor set up with modded valve. so at these levels you don’t need to mess with the stock hammer weights
yes the oring behind the top hat,
I have had great luck with the oring, and i think that it would still work with a regged set up also.
I had a super heavy hammer 115gr, and I did put it in play with and shot a few of Jerry slugs 6 ringer..the best I could get was 93fp, was hoping to break 100. Shooting slugs or shooting for max power is the only reason for it. After the slug play, I took it out, gun too loud, to clunky for everyday shooting. Back to a nice easy going 900fps.
I was thinking more in mind of the average shooter that wants a little more power 40-50fps. Go buy a 90grain hammer and fill to 2900 or loosen the spring a 1/2 turn and keep shooting at 2400, which is better?
I don’t know for sure, but I would take to 2400 fill every time.
Yes, there is an oring behind my tophat also, I agree a worthwhile addition.
well on a high power situation you want a high bottle pressure for more power to move heavier pellets, so it takes more hammer to open the valve longer with the high bottle prewsure to get the bigger,longer release of air.
yes the oring behind the top hat,
for moderate velocities, within the capabilities of the stock hammer, the top hat return spring pressure probably does nothing or not much,your not putting a heavier hammer in because of the return spring it’s for the higher pressures in the bottle
for maximum setting it might make a little difference.
I have had great luck with the oring, and i think that it would still work with a regged set up also.
Powderburner wrote:
(so i have been thinking about the way my oring helps close the top hat quicker and makes things more effiecent, so would turning the spring all the way in help the top hat close quicker like the oring does, ????? in a non full power set up???????)
Isn’t the Oring mod you speak of where the oring goes behind the tophat to cushion the blow. Is there another I missed?
I think when you turn the spring in its harder to open- quicker to close -stiffer spring. Most compensate for this by putting in a heavier hammer or PW up to 12, to open that now stiffer spring.
This just sound silly to me, why stiffen the spring then need a 100gr hammer to open it. Just doesn’t make sense to me. There may be some reason- open-close valve time, consistency ect..9ring slugs ..
Instead of slapping aroud a 100gr hammer and beating the crap out of the valve, why not just make it easier to open by making the spring easier to open?
Just one of those things that I don’t understand the reasoning behind
you know before i bought my condor in 09 i read like every post on this forum it seems like , trying to take it all in and the mods for the valve i did were for the talon valve for the most part, as far as polishing it up and all, and the general thing for the stem return spring was to adjust the spring so that it would close the top hat while hoding it in your your hand with teflon tape on the thread s to keep it from moving around afterward.
so that the top hat would just close by the spring while turning the brass nut up , without any more pressure than it took to close the top hat.
this is the way i have ran mine ever since.
so i have been thinking about the way my oring helps close the top hat quicker and makes things more effiecent, so would turning the spring all the way in help the top hat close quicker like the oring does, ????? in a non full power set up???????
Most consistant shot string, I was getting anywhere between 30 and 25 shots plus or minus a 1/2 turn, I settled for 27 shots.
And what where you finding Maw, and what were you trying to accomplish with your experiment 😯
AS an experiment as to finding about the best spring tension, lately I would loosen the spring retainer just untill the spring started to collapse( pushing on top-hat while turning out spring retainer) then screw in the spring retainer 2 complete turns.
Ok thought I was having one of those moments, nothing else I could find at the moment would make me think of why it was doing what it was. I think with all the polishing, and I made the taper towards the hole a bit steaper, and I ended up with about.002 thousands more between the bottom of the top hat and valve face, so this is where the difference was. making a top hat to match another is not as easy as one would think! all measuerments have to be perfect! For now mine is going to be LOL!! I had it in my mind less spring tension easier to open, but when you get into changing to many things at once you can easily second guess yourself! thank for the help! You to Charlie!
Less tension on spring…
Less tension, easier to open, weaker return spring stays open longer.
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powder burner you are absolutley correct! I did figure out my one piece top hat I have been wanting to make! to make a long story short if you are making one to match the stock adjustable one, it is not an easy job to do! I really didn’t think to much about it when I started making mine, but when you do, just a couple thousands off on any of the dimensions on the length of the top hat, you will get differenct results! where my problem was is when you set up a stock top hat and adjust it with a fealer guage to get it set up where you want it! well my top hat was three thousands longer from the bottom of the stem to the under side of the bigger size that fits into the delrin bolt assembly. I have shot mine a ton and ended up leaving it set at .087 for top hat adjustment, and I was three thousands off on that measurement, I thought I was going to have to make a new one but didn’t. After checking all my measurments I was able to take off the three thousands on the very end that fits down in the delrin seal hole that brought me from the .090 I had with the one piece down to my .087 where I wanted to be! All is good now. If any of you ever make one or are trying to copy a stock one, the first thing you want to do is make the overall length perfect then machine your shoulders up to the larger diam then all will be good! I ended up useing a small machinist vise I made years ago to hold the top hat in so I could use a dept mic instead of my digital calipers! Small peice to try and get accruacy down to the thousands holy shitt 😯 😯 😯
Anyway I to use an oring behind my top hat best and I mean best mod ever to these guns hands down, I have tried to get other guys to try them and I think they think I am blowing them off beccause it is such a simple mod! I now only fill to 2,200 psi and shoot down to 1,700 psi for 40 shots at and average of 930 for 18.1 jsb’s and 900 for kodiaks 21 gr this is with stock weight hammer, I made mine a one peice hammer this also makes for more consistent shots. and power wheel set at 1