Condor – What all is involved in valve porting
If I get a factory 25 Caliber Condor, what valve porting could be done ? I’ve looked at the schematic of the valve and it basically has 2 side holes flowing air into the main hole.
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you could try turning down the pw or top hat and fiddle a little. also if more power is what your after have you tried some heavier pellets to use the excess air?
I think that while stem porting, a little goes a LONG way. 😉 …..
Right, I was concerned about weakening the stem and apparently only cut away a portion of what some have. I’m happy with the resulting 50 FPS increase I got on a 12″ barrel but it didn’t help my groups so I’ll save it for bigger barrels.
Lurk, I think you have run into the 12″ barrel not being able to use all that air so you have to over air the pellet to get more power. A longer barrel may do what your looking for!
I think that while stem porting, a little goes a LONG way. 😉
I tried to tune a buddy’s hot rodded Camaro when I was living down in LA. It had two distributors, headers, 8 quart oil pan, over sized pistons, it was faster than a raped ape BUT had a wicked stumble off the line…
Over a four day period I spent 50 hours working on the damned thing. I came to the conclusion that the heads had been ported incorrectly, this was after changing the two coils, cap rotor head, plugs, wires, fuel pump, carb parts, I even disconnected one of the distributors trying to track down the issue. It drove me nuts, I can diagnose ANYTHING that burns gas, I was obsessed with making it run correctly.
He told me I didn’t know anything about what I was doing and since he was a friend I didn’t ask for any money. He took it to a hotrod shop and after spending a couple grand doing the exact same things I did, except they replaced the distributors and the parts I only check for function. After a three days they finally pulled the heads and flowed them on a bench.
They were over ported. 👿
Apparently the guy, who was supposed to be a pro had just ground and polished the heads by feel and based on what he had done many times before. They were never checked out when finished and he and wrecked them completely…
I know from tuning two stroke motors that all you really need to do to get lots more power is basically take down some edges and smooth the path of travel of the air into the combustion chamber ever so slightly. It’s really easy to over do it! My buddy was so pissed at the car he sold it to one of the guys at the shop for exactly what he paid, which was far less than the price of all the GOOD parts… 😆
Back pressure is as important as increased air flow. Turbulence is death.
I wonder what it would take to make a flow bench for a valve stem… 😕 😀
I recently did an angle hand milling job on one Condor valve stem. Using a dremel I elongated the side holes of the stem both forward and back but very little forward. Just enough forward to smooth air flow. And actually elongating the hole to the rear.
The immediate effect was nearly 50 FPS improvement in my 12″ x .177 barrel using JSB 10.3grain without the Condor extra hammer weight.
Unfortunately, air useage went from 10 PSI per shot to 45 PSI per shot and 5 shots at 50 yards at 2″s isn’t a group. The hottest 10 shot string from 1900 PSI, went from 977 FPS down to 913.
I switched to 16.1 grain EJs and achieved a useless 859 FPS and Tank Dumps.
I pulled the ported valve stem and will try it again when I swap to my 24″ x .22 barrel.
Has anyone thought about 45 degree grinding the side ports in the direction of airflow and radiusing the edges ?
We sort of do that when we do a valve mod on the crossman valves. Makes sense. Perhaps some of the guys have done it before….
Thanks – that was very helpful. I was thinking that I needed to do something about the side ports to reduce the 90 degree inflow and air collision which has to be causing extreme turbulence upstream.
Has anyone thought about 45 degree grinding the side ports in the direction of airflow and radiusing the edges ?
The proper way to port would be using a lathe or drill press (there is a sticky on this method but I can’t find it…perhaps someone will put up the link for you), but the poor man’s method is shown in my link below. If you do it this way be very careful as the valve walls do not have much metal and if you are off in any direction with your drill bit you can burn through the wall and ruin the valve. Also if you are off (not straight) you can weaken the valve wall and it can crush from the impact of the hammer….
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15157&highlight=valve+mod
Smoothing the action is understandable doing minute polishingof the contact and release surfaces. Also polishing all moving parts of the valve and lapping the valve seat.
But what is involved in “porting” ?
You can use the High Flow valve the way it comes.
Improving the valve is more then just porting. It is also smoothing the action and balancing the spring.
My advice is shoot it stock and only modify if it does not do what you want.
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Has anyone thought about 45 degree grinding the side ports in the direction of airflow and radiusing the edges ?
i did that even more than 45 degree
works great for me 🙂