Converting CO2 tank for AIR???
I emptied my 24oz CO2 tank this morning, and filled it with air to 2000 psi from my scuba tank. I kept the CO2 valve and adapter on the tank and rifle. It shot just fine, and penetration, as measured per the AHDPS criteria showed that CO2 will cause a .22 pellet to penetrate approximately 1/4″ into a treated pine board. With a 2000 air psi fill in the CO2 tank, that pellet penetrated the same board approximately twice that depth. Resulting in a “NTB” rating on their chart.
The pellet, a Precision Max 14 gr., imported from China by Daisy, without regard to expense, fit loosely in the Walther barrel, and I personally wouldn’t trust it to shoot insects.
However, I noted the following facts:
1) The CO2 tank, stamped at max 1800 psi, with a 3000 psi burst disk, accepted the fill without any problem. The hydro test for this tank is likely 4k to 5k psi, so a 2000 psi fill, and I suspect a 2500 psi fill, should poise no undue risk to myself. However, others trying this will most certainly be killed, and I don’t suggest you come near this dangerous and ill-advised experiment!
2) I, personally, didn’t die during this test. In fact, I wasn’t even injured. Probably just dumb luck.
3) The Talon SS, 18″ .22 barrel, GTBJ shroud, performed silently, and flawlessly.
4) I used a K-valve connector attached to a coiled hose for the scuba tank, and a CO2 fill adapter for the bottle.
5) I will no longer use CO2 in this tank, as air is clearly the better performer.
6) My ABEE chrony indicated the pellet hit a designation of “PDG” on its chart. I can live with that. I can always use my Talon air tank for those instances when I need the full monty on velocity and impact.
NOTE: Lacking the above special equipment, knowledge, and balls, this foolhardy and dangerous experiment should NOT be repeated by the readers. I don’t want to get sued for stupidity. Mine or yours.
Anyone dumb enough to experiment with a PCP airgun, 🙄 certainly doesn’t exist on this forum. So I post my results for entertainment purposes only.
Regards,
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot
All Replies
have you tried fill the bath with hot water and having a bath? its a common use for for those things other then drowning a drunk woman or for those cleaner wrist cutting plonkers.
I’m having some custom furniture put on my Talon. When it gets back, I’ll post photos of everything.
The guy who’s working on it said it was full of “sludge”. He’s doing a trigger mod for me too. Hey, how was I supposed to know I couldn’t use chainsaw lube in it? It does a great job on my 20″ Huskvarna!
The only thing I can figure is, sometimes I have to swim underwater to get the necessary head shot on those chickens, and I admit I don’t always drain the water out of the shroud when I’m finished, like I should!
I guess I’ve always been hard on women, and guns.
Hoot
PS: I still want to mount a bayonet on my Talon. Airforce doesn’t carry specific mounts for that purpose, or so they said when I called.
so when do the headless chicken photos get posted??? 😆
Huevos, dude………….”Huevos”.
I thought Pablouk was English?
“…only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noon day sun!”
Except for what I have written, he would probably have tried to fill it to 4500 psi, and blown up half his block, and the tenants who live there! Those people are just a little nuts you know. Besides, if you kill one, ten more pop up out of nowhere. (or so says a German friend of mine…) 😯
OMG, we are all going to die, playing around with bombs. Thanks for the wisdom “POPS”.
If a bottle for public use is rated at 2000psi, its fair to say you can use 3000psi safely….Probably…..
Not even the old bitch next door? 😆
Actually, there was some very interesting information there and in this thread in general. Yes, there will be folks who will bitch about it… folks with far more knowledge than I on the subject and so their gripes will likely be valid… but for my own entertainment and information…. great stuff. Thanks!
Dear Uncle Hoot,
Thanks for the information and please do not blow yourself up…..
Uncle Hoot,
You are handsome in a Brother’s Grimm sort of way 😯
Aunt hoot, I cheer you, you really are a man with balls, that you made takes guts .
Here in Argentina are CO2 bottles seem to ve very resistent, I filled up whit 250 bar (3600psi) and it work well, I still conserve my two hands…
Please do not repeat this experiment…
.
WARNING! THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!!!
An interesting site on C2 information.
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2dynamics.shtml#6
Question: Burst disk pressure on CO2 bottles?
“What’s the burst pressure?
CO2 bottles contain copper “burst disks” which will blow out above a certain pressure and release the contents of the bottle into the air in a relatively safe manner. The blowout pressure of burst discs vary with manufacturer but the minimum value is about 2200 psi and the maximum value is about 2800 psi. ”
Question: CO2 Calculations for displacement in cubic inches.
Bottle Volumes:
Bottle Volume
size (cu in)
(oz)
3.5 9.0
7.0 18.0
12.0 31.0
20.0 51.0
Roughly, the volume of a CO2 bottle (cu in) is about 2.57 times the bottle size (oz)
Specific Gravity of CO2 is 1.977 gm/cc Thus the weight of 1 cu inch of liquid CO2 is 1.140 oz. ”
My calculations, a 24oz CO2 bottle would have 61.68 cu inches capacity. In appearance, it looks to be twice the size of the AA air bottle.
An interesting diagram, below site, shows CO2 pressure in a bottle filled to 110% capacity (100% = 7/18oz/cu in), will exceed 2500 psi when it gets over 120 degrees. In Texas, a black bottle exposed to the sun, with air temps of 100 to 110 degrees, is likely to get very hot. If the bottle is even slightly overfilled, it will hit over 2500 psi. Therefore, the presence of a 3000 psi burst disk, and the bottle rated at 1800 psi, giving a margin of safety to even the burst disk limit, which itself gives a safety margin from the actual bottle burst pressure. IF everything works as it is designed. Therein lies the danger!
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/gasses/co2pv.gif
Edited: Further investigation has shown that one site states “hydro-testing of CO2 tanks consists of over-pressure to 2.25 times their rated value”, giving an 1800 psi rated tank a hydro-test value of 4500 psi. Impressive. Given that hydro-test pressure is still below the suspected bottle burst pressure.
BUT, further investigation has shown another source states CO2 bottles are hydro-tested to only 5/3 of their rated pressure. If 3/3rds of your CO2 bottle is stamped at 1800 psi, then the remaining 2/3 increases the test pressure by only 1200 pounds (600 psi per 1/3). Unfortunately, that now gives us a hydro-test tank pressure of only 3000 psi, not 4500 psi. Now granted that bottle is still hydro-tested below its perceived bottle burst pressure, this still may be as low as 3500 psi, or even lower.
Problematic, is my 1800 psi rated CO2 bottle has a burst disk rated at 3000 psi, the same as one of the hydro-test pressures. Probably needs a 2500/2800 psi burst disk replacement.
Again, we face the problem of conflicting/contradictory information on this matter. I will reduce my burst disk to 2500/2800 psi just to be safe.
This explains the need to be very conservative if you want to calculate how much air pressure a given CO2 bottle could theoretically hold, without bursting and injuring someone.
Therefore, should you use air in a CO2 bottle? And overfill it to boot? My advice is, for all legal and safety purposes, there is a great deal of risk, and many uncertainties. So, DON’T DO IT! We have no way of knowing if any web sites statements are valid, nor if your personal CO2 bottle, burst disk, and fill pressures are safe. If the bottle does burst while you are filling it, you will probably die, or be guaranteed very serious injuries. It would be equivalent to a grenade going off in your hand!
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot does not want to kill anybody, and wants everyone to be alert to safety precautions, the limits of our equipment, and our personal knowledge, especially as some of us are known to experiment with things.
test
Pablouck, I am considered, in these parts, to be a handsome man. In England, I just might be considered a “Sex Symbol”! I know I’m good at it because I practice every day, especially when I’m alone. And, don’t make fun of my hair. I spend good money to keep it conditioned and greased!
njnoodles, I always suspected you either had balls the size of cantaloupes, or was a crazy MF’r! Perhaps a bit of both. (How much psi did you use?) That 24oz tank has twice the volume of the Talon tank. Hmmmm..
Pulaskius, a “Mannlicher” is more than just a fun gal to date!!! Food for thought when you start turning out full stocks!
Nay-Sayers, line up and take your shots! A REAL man doesn’t use a lube…just a bit of ice afterwards.
Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot
Disclaimer: “Kindly ‘Ol Uncle Hoot is not quite right in the head. Nothing in his remarks should be considered useful, serious, or safe for human consumption, or use. Always take two aspirin after reading his remarks, and rest for 15 minutes before replying. Look in his eyebulbs…the lights may be on, but no one is home.“
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Great idea Brutus, EXCEPT….what am I going to put that much bath water in??? 🙄
That would be many gallons, probably 30 or 40! There isn’t a pot or pan in my trailer that would hold that much water.
Smart pants….everybody has a better idea till it comes to actually putting it into effect!
Besides, you don’t drown a drunk woman. You slap her around a bit, leave a $20 tip, and get out of there before they sober up. Women are scarce here-abouts. You can’t cull all the bad ones out…even they have some use!
The preferred way to commit suicide in Arkansas is with a chainsaw, equipped with a newly sharpened chain, taking off the legs just above the knees. Slashing wrists is for sissies!