Did a shooting comparison with stock talon valve -vs- mod..
…ifid talon valve. All tests were done with JSB 16 gr (.22) 12″ barrel Talon SS. Near Perfect conditions with ZERO wind!
First thing I noticed is on my stock talon tank my POI at a 50 yard target dropped an average of 2.5″ from the beginning of the curve (2800 psi sp) to the end of the curve (1800 psi ep).
I also observed that the lower fill pressures (towards the end of the curve) yielded looser groups. The last two groups I shot were 1/2″ wider than the first groups (understandable considering that the pellets were slowing down).
I switched tanks on the carbine to the “flow mod” tank (what I did to this valve was port and polish and I also added a condor valve spring retainer).
I went from 810 fps to 910 fps with this modification. With the added 100 fps I noticed that the pellets drifted 1″ to the right of the POI of the stock tank and they also drifted vertically 1.25″.
My groups also improved significantly with the higher fps. They went from 1″ to 1.5″ groups @ 50 yards to 3/4″ to 1.25″ groups.
Obviously the jsb 16 gr pellets prefer faster speeds. I would imagine they would even like to be moving a little faster….
This modification is a must for any talon owner. I do wonder if a condor valve and added hammer weight would prove too much for the 16 gr pellets and if so, one could switch to a heavier pellet. Also, would the smaller 12″ barrel be too short and would the “plume” of “extra” air exiting the muzzle cause the pellet to “wobble”???
I don’t see the need for a “condor” valve on an SS, just curious to know if anyone tried it already? Good day to all!
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synopsys,
I love when it rains on my parade, Honestly! This is how I learn. I am still a mere “initiate” with these rifles and I love the feedback! You have offered some good suggestions and I surely need to run both of these valve/tanks through the crony to see what kind of curves and variations they exhibit.
Ironically the original prompt to start this topic, although I did not make it obvious, was: what would cause the pellet to drift right and high at the higher velocities? I think you are right when you said by turning the modded valve down to the slower velocity of the stock valve the POI would be the same as the stock valve…Soooooooooooooo what is it in the higher speeds that make the pellet drift so much? I recall someone asking this in the past, but I don’t recall if an answer was given.
I thank you for this info. In a few weeks I will set both tanks to shoot the same speeds and then I will compare are usage and shot variation, thanks 😉
80, I think MM was hinting at what I was saying. I understand the mod helps up the power (if the valves were performing exactly and the modded valve went back to the exact same th setting as it had before the mod….).
But really your comparing apples to turkeys shooting the same pellet at two different speeds. Set the stock tank to shoot the same speed and then shoot a 25 shot string from each valve. Then record the ending pressure and the poi change. This will show the difference between the two.
I have set two of the same valves to the same settings (th, pw, fill) and they don’t even shoot the same… So if two stock Talon valves perform different how can you tell the difference between a modded and non-modded.
I’m not trying to crap on your parade although it sure sounds like it. For me the interest is the difference in air usage and the variation between the shots. If the modded valve has less variation between shots when compared to the stock valve then the polishing is making a difference… If the valve is moving more smoothly then it may save air and have more shots than the stock valve (some are pretty sticky)… You see where i’m going?
If you want to make me look like a dick, turn down the pw and shoot the same pellet at the slower speeds with the modded valve, if you get the exact same poi as the higher velocity i’ll take my whipping… I’d guess you’ll see accuracy results similar to the stock valve shooting the same velocity…
One thing is, you’ll never know without trying it. 😉
😆
RJ,
I don’t hear of many people filling to 3400. How heavy is your hammer? That is very impressive. Are those the 9 rings your shooting?
dont know what to tell ya on that im a power shooter 3400psi fill no bell curve is what i got with my condor valve modded im getting 85fpe with 85grn pellets with 3/8in groups
I got a stock talon valve to push a .25 cal 30 grain pellet past 800fps (24″ barrel).
I’d try getting the same velocity at the same tank pressure for each valve and then shoot a 20-30 pellet string for each and note poi shifts, velocity variation, etc, etc…
I have two tanks. One has the stock talon valve and the other has a modified talon valve. Before I modified the valve on tank 2 it averaged 810 fps. The mod gave me another 100 fps.
The stock tank # 1 gives me around the same fps as tank # 2 did when it was stock.
It was obvious that the JSB’s grouped much better when they were traveling faster. I also noted that the POI Rose and drifted right when I went from the stock tank #1 to the modded tank # 2.
Hope this helped to clarify, wait, I’m confusing myself now 😕 😆 Either way…I think I will do a valve job on tank # 1 and perhpas once it is done and flowing nicely…I will offer it for sale.
To make things even more confusing I am going to test the same SS with my Tony tuned AAA condor tank. Maybe start out with a 2500 fill pressure unless you guys think the stock talon hammer can handle higher fill pressures???
How do the groups look if you get your stock valve shooting the same fps… 😕 Or am I misreading the 810-910 remark?
I got a stock talon valve to push a .25 cal 30 grain pellet past 800fps (24″ barrel).
I’d try getting the same velocity at the same tank pressure for each valve and then shoot a 20-30 pellet string for each and note poi shifts, velocity variation, etc, etc…
No, my testing was with a 24″ barrel.
I don’t think the Hi-Flow is too much for a 12″. Screw that tophat down and lower your PW, you’ll be fine.
Jim
Thanks guys. I have to admit, I have really been enjoying this “shorty”. I guess it’s true that when they are loud you don’t really reach for them as often. Since I’ve had this SS it has seen more use than any of my other guns. Real fun gun, especially when shooting offhand. I think I will enjoy it as it is with the modded talon valve. I will tune it soon for the best curve I can get.
80 Grit,
No, my testing was with a 24″ barrel.
I don’t think the Hi-Flow is too much for a 12″. Screw that tophat down and lower your PW, you’ll be fine.
Jim
if u do a search of my post u can find were i did my supersonic testing and see the targets
I SHOOT THE 18GRN WITH 24IN BARREL at1150-1250 depending on PWsetting and get great groups at 50yds like 3/8in to 1/2in
So your 18 gr JSB’s go supersonic and still group good at 50? I’ve heard they can go supersonic at shorter ranges but at 80 to 120 yards they destabilize….
hEY 80
I SHOOT THE 18GRN WITH 24IN BARREL at1150-1250 depending on PWsetting and get great groups at 50yds like 3/8in to 1/2in
Jim,
Thanks for the info. Was that 1000 plus fps out of a 12″ barrel? The reason I ask is if I ended up with a “condor” valve on my SS would it be too much air for the 12″ barrel???
It’s good to know that the JSB’s like faster speeds. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Joe
Hey 80 Grit,
The JSB 16 (15.8) LOVE higher velocities. During my extensive testing I normally don’t shoot for groups, just shot count and velocity. However, Noah, my 8yo, wanted to shoot some Hedge Apples (Osage Orange fruits) so I decided to site-in one setup so we could have a little fun.
The velocity was 1015fps and it was incredibly accurate. I was literally stacking pellets at 50-60 yds. I mean one-holers. I shot three Hedge Apples off their stems in three shots. Perfect stem hits. One apple was behind a branch so I pruned the branch (about 1″ diameter) in four shots. I was absolutely amazed.
So, besides a little bragging, LOL, I wanted to share that they will indeed take the higher velocities and a good valve job is a great idea.
Tony’s work is incredible in this area, he sent me one and I will be testing it on the 2500psi reg for the .25cal to see if I can get some stupid-good numbers from it. Just might be required for you guys wanting mind-bending FPE.
Regards,
Jim
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80
my gun is .22cal im shooting 28grn eunjin pellets making that power
24in barrel and a 115-120grn hammer
im gettin a new valve the end of this week i should get better than 1100-1200fps with the 32grn pells eunjin