Edgun .22 cal More Power than .25 cal (physical Prove)
Hi every one
i have my opinion about Air rifle ammo
.22 cal is more power and accuracy than .25 cal
But it should have the same weight
as example this page have heaviest type of .22 cal pellets
http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Ammo/109/calibers_0_22/pw_grain4
if we use Edgun R3M .25 cal with this pellet “JSB Match Diabolo Exact King .25 Cal, 25.39 Grains, Domed”
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/JSB_Match_Diabolo_Exact_King_25_Cal_25_39_Grains_Domed_350ct/720
and shot it in velocity up to 900 FPS then we will get power up to 46 FPE
and if we use Edgun R3M .22 cal Long With This Pellet “JSB Match Diabolo Exact Jumbo Monster .22 Cal, 25.39 Grains, Domed”
and shoot it in velocity up to 900 FPS (We will shoot in the same Velocity) then we will get the same power up to 46 FPE
some one ask we have the same velocity and the same muzzle force so how could the .22 cal will be more power than .25 cal and more accuracy also
i will answer
the size of .22 cal is smaller than .25 cal so the aerodynamic drag for .22 cal is much smaller than the aerodynamic drag for .25 cal
this will make the .22 cal loss it’s power slowly
if we shoot the same weigh for these 2 caliber to 50 yard and then use chrono at the target point we will see the the velocity of .25 cal is much less than .22
that’s what make .22 cal save it’s energy while traveling in the shooting space
and for accuracy we will go to physics :3:
the Momentum is
P= M*V
m= mass
V= Velocity
these two caliber have the same weight and the same velocity so they have the same Momentum buy they difference only in Size this make .22 have little resistance by air
i wish some one make this practical in real life by using edgun
but he should adjust the Matador R3M .22 cal to shoot 25.39 grain with velocity 900 fps
because didn’t give him that velocity if he use pellet in this weight
also he should use the same mark “JSB” because
so how will do this 😉
Mr.Edward you are the most Candidate person to do that 
spend little from your time to prove the Edgun Matador R3M In More Power an Accuracy than any other .25 cal PCP Rifles 😈
Do this for your FANS 😳
Thanks For Reading
My Regards
All Replies
I have done enough testing on squirrels with both calibers to know .25 anchors them with almost any decent shot even chest shots. The same cannot be said for .22. I use predator pellets in both and the .25 is in a different league.
First i want to say thanks for Every one post in this thread
because i make this thread in Arabic forum before Years Ago for hunting but i didn’t got post as much as what i got in this Forum
http://www.egypthunter.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9476
Mr Wingman thank you very much now i understand what you mean and this is what i need to know it
when we want to make pellets in .22 cal with 25 grain this will be not easy because the size in small and it will not help is
so we forced to use material have high density to fit all the size in order to get 25 Grain pellet like Lead
the barrels used in most rifle Twisted in special mode to be comfortable with the deafult shape of .22 cal
and the .22 cal 25 grain have different shape so that’s make the pellets is not accuracy
in this photo the read like mean only this area will be TWISTED by barrel
and as we see the 25 grain have large area to TWISTED if it compared to .22 18 grain
Large Area mean More Friction (losses in power and distort the shape of the pellet)
The other pcp that shot them well was the P12.. check out my review to see that group..
Because its a heavier and longer pellet it benefits from a faster twist rate such as 1-16″ or 1-16.5″ like a BSA barrel. It would seem they prefer an unchoked barrel like a cast bullet too. Ideally if you wanted to shoot this pellet at the more modest velocities of 800-900 fps that you would need a 1-15″ twist unchocked barrel.. Good luck trying to shoot any other pellet through that custom barrel though..
On paper I would be very surprised to see that combo out shoot the 18.1gr pellets in a generic twist barrel and I couldn’t see any advantage of better hunting balistics either. Maybe on larger heavier boned game such as hogs or Yotes maybe even head shooting small deer.
I find the .22 25.4gr pellets zip right through smaller softer game like rabbits etc without that usual pop sound of a solid hit.. This is not the case with the flying brick we know and love… the JSB .25cal Kings… thats sound is a good indercation of the energy each pellet it transfering to the game. The 25gr .22 may hold mre energy to longer ranges but the smaller diameter will always struggle to dump all that energy on a soft target.
Thank you Mr.roachcreek for these words 😳
MY REGARDS 😮
I prefer the .22 cal as the better airgun caliber becuase it is more accurate, more usable and more practical. i am also using .22cal for my airgun from past one years and till now I have not face any problem with this cal.
The only hope I saw in a successful 50 fpe 22 is and Evanix rainstorm shooting Eun gin 28 gr pellets. But compared to 50 fpe cricket shooting kings it’s so much better. More shots more accurate. I tried that road and finally sold RS and got cricket. Now those are different animals altogether but make so much more sense. I can go out and shoot instead of out doing a science project and trying to make something work
Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
I have tested the 25.4gr .22 jsbs is probably over 30 different pcps.. The Edgun Matdor does not shoot them well at all.. Id say you would be lucky to group 5 shots inside 6″ at 50 yards.. The only two pcps that put them inside an inch at 50 yards was a Evanix AR6 which pushed them out over 1000fps in that sloppy korean barrel.. but they were only good for about 12 shots in this un regged rifle because as soon as the velocity dropped off the groups opened up.
The other pcp that shot them well was the P12.. check out my review to see that group..
Because its a heavier and longer pellet it benefits from a faster twist rate such as 1-16″ or 1-16.5″ like a BSA barrel. It would seem they prefer an unchoked barrel like a cast bullet too. Ideally if you wanted to shoot this pellet at the more modest velocities of 800-900 fps that you would need a 1-15″ twist unchocked barrel.. Good luck trying to shoot any other pellet through that custom barrel though..
On paper I would be very supprised to see that combo out shoot the 18.1gr pellets in a generic twist barrel and I couldnt see any advantage of better hunting balistics either. Maybe on larger heavier boned game such as hogs or Yotes maybe even head shooting small deer.
I find the .22 25.4gr pellets zip right through smaller softer game like rabbits etc without that usual pop sound of a solid hit.. This is not the case with the flying brick we know and love… the JSB .25cal Kings… thats sound is a good indercation of the energy each pellet it transfering to the game. The 25gr .22 may hold mre energy to longer ranges but the smaller diameter will always struggle to dump all that energy on a soft target.
Accuracy is the issue here Haider, and like we are all telling you, that 22 caliber 25.1 grain JSB has almost always had accuracy issues.
I have tried to get the 25.1 grain 22 to shoot in two rifles, the Condor and a PCP 2240 with a 14 inch barrel. The 2240 was only doing around 600 FPS, but the Condor was going at least 900 FPS or more.
The accuracy just was not there with the 25.1 grain JSB in 22. This is an ongoing theme with those who have tried to get acceptable accuracy out of the 22 caliber 25.1 grain JSB, almost no one had got it to shoot well, and so many of us have tried. As a result in a 22, I would pick the 18 grain JSB every time over the 25.1.
I to had your mind set about 22 vrs 25 in the 25.1 grain pellets, but you have to consider that your thoughts on this are not new territory, most of us air gun cranks had the same idea because we also understand BC and the fact that a smaller projectile of the same weight will have a higher BC.
There is seldom an original thought Haider, but please never let that stop you from asking, it is how we all learn. And when we do come up with new ideas and post them here, we all learn.
thanks for those who posting
i want to ask why every one test the 25 grain of .22 cal say it’s have bad accuracy
did he try to adjust the rifle to shoot at 900 FPS
are there factors that make pellet more accurate non-weight
my regards
At under 50 yards, I have noticed that the 22 cal 18.1 JSB gives a quicker kill on pigeons. The 25 cal 25.1 pellet tends to just pass thru and keep on going. Under 50 yards, I got quick kills with the 22 shooting the JSB 18.1 pellets, Past 50 yards, the 25 cal has the upper hand. BIG time!
Myself, I think that you are just pissing in the wind trying to compare the 25 grain 22 cal pellet to a 25 grain 25 cal pellet. The 25 grain 22 cal JSB pellet has a better BC and more FPE than a 25 grain JSB 25 cal pellet but: I tried the 25 grain, 22 cal JSB pellets and the accuracy was HORRIBLE! I want to hit what I am shooting at.
Stay with the 22 cal, 18.1 JSB or: step up to the 25 cal.
Not to disagree with your same or more power theory..
But I tend to think of it this way..most moder pcp guns have plenty of power.
Example…a squirrel, rabbit, or other small game..head shot taken with a 30 fp gun.
You can bet that .22 pellet is comming out the other side of the critters head
How fast is it going? How much energy was transfered to the critters head?
Did it only take 15fp, to pass through the game?
Was not the other 15fp waisted?
Now take that .30 cal..same critter…you can bet it will pass through as well.
but being larger it will use more energy to pass through.
in other words it transfers more if its energy to the target
bigger hole, more energy transfer..devastated critter.
hp’s do the same..make a .22 cal leave a .25 cal hole and transfer more to the critter
There is more to accuracy than just bc and weight. The 25 grain 22 cal Pellet isn’t acurate in the edguns. If the lower speed of the heavier pellet was going to do anything, it would help accuracy. Speed only helps with bullet drop and wind deflection.
There is more to killing than just punching a hole in something. That’s why the make hollow points.
most important thing that you forget is the 22. is smaller than .25 but they have the same weight this make the pellet more power full for big game hunting
most people say how could .22 be more power than .25 because Because they imagine the size of .25 is bigger so they think that .25 is better and more accurate
i just want to know one thing
why all people say “till we make this experiment it will never be in the same accuracy” :darth-vader:
just one question 😆
i know there is someone try it but did he try to shoot with the same velocity 900 fps
or he just try to shoot without adjust the rifle
because the rifle is not preparing to shoot pellet with weight like this in this velocity :4:
and why most people say if we shoot with the same velocity we will never get the same accuracy
is there something make .22 cal with 25 gram can’t be at the same accuracy
My Regards
Several of us have been down this path with the King vrs Monster pellets. Thing is theory does not trump field experience, and field experience is where your theory comes unraveled
.
Yes the Monster does have a better BC, meaning Ballistic coeffecient, but it never seems to be as accurate, and in most cases simply is not accurate at all.
I personally wish it was, but wishing does not get the groups on paper that the King produces,
Then there is knock down effect, the 25 caliber King with the larger frontal area simply hits harder on game.
Now about your “cast yourself” question. He is referring to those of us who use firearm barrels on air guns and shoot cast bullets, not pellets, originally designed for firearm cartridges.
The best efficiency with cast bullets in air guns,is to use a firearms barrel, in the USA were fond of TJ barrrels. An air gun barrel will never produce the accuracy we want, and to throw the heaviest bullet, with the best BC at just under the speed of sound, or around 1110 FPS, the 257 bullets weighing 70 to 80 grains simply do this better with the air gun power plants we have today, and bullets like the Lyman 257420 which have been in use now for 80 years have a track record for accuracy.
Mostly the cast bullets in 22’s are not the best option because it takes more power than we have in air guns to get a 70 grain cast 224 bullet to 1110 FPS with it’s smaller base for the air to push on and its longer profile to produce more bullt bearing surface on the barrel which increases friction.
Hope this helps explain what your facing in proving your theory.
Watch the video on my signature and it will show what a cast bulet air gun is capable of.
People buy what they enjoy shooting, and they enjoy shooting what gets the job done best. It’s not important that the .22 can shoot as hard as a .25 with the same weight and velocity pellet…it’s important that the .25 can shoot the heavier 30 to 40+ grain pellets at a greater distance, and impact at 60 to 70 FPE. The same is more true with the .30 caliber and larger. The max potential FPE available in a specific caliber that meets, or exceeds, the needs of the shooter, is what most varmint and pest shooters desire.
It has been proven that a Swedish 6.5X55 powder burner can stop an elephant with a head shot. The same is true with the .500 Nitro Express. If I were to shoot an elephant in the head, I’d choose a .50 caliber over a .25 caliber, because it offers a greater opportunity for a humane kill…especially when the humane being killed is NOT me.
Academically, what you say is true. Practically speaking, most shooters will match what they shoot with the game they hunt. An East coast rat hunter, at 30 meters, will choose differently than a Western coyote hunter at 100 meters.
Ed knows this. Interestingly, he can shoot a nice grouse with a .30 caliber when he could have done the same with a .117, so it’s a matter of shooter choice.
Besides, I don’t like those “trash can” design pellets.
You make a good point and I don’t disagree with a word you say!
Hoot:
As far as the 257 bullets goes, you must cast your own or buy them from a fellow airgunner that casts them. I’m not sure of the price, but I think its at least $20 for 100 bullets. No large scale pellet or bullet manufacture makes an off the shelf 257 that works well in the 257 air rifles.
As far as the 22 cal 25 grain pellet is conserned., I would not discourage the test, I’m simply saying that everyone has determined that the 18 grain pellet is the more accurate one. And since the 25 has been determined to be more accurate at long range than the 22 with the 18 grain pellet, im not Hopfull that the 25 grain 22 cal pellet is going to out shoot the 25.
Its like this; since the 18 grain pellet has been proven to out shoot the 25 grain pellet in 22 caliber and the 25 caliber 25 grain pellet has been proven to out shoot the 18 grain 22cal, then I don’t see the 25 grain 22 caliber pellet our shooting the 25 grain 25 cailber pellet. If that was not the case, you wouldn’t see as many poeple owning both guns. They would simple switch ammo when they needed it. Again, I haven’t seen an actual side my side shoot out, but I think there is enough evidence out there to eliminate the 25 grain 25 cal pellet as the champ. If it was just about better bc and weight, the barracuda or the heavier enjin pellets would be all you hear about coming out of edguns. Something about the shape or balance of the 25 grain 22 cailber pellet just doesn’t lend itself to the same level of accuracy as the 25. I’ve got a spare 22 cal barrel and if I thought the other pellet would beet my 25, I’d be getting the other parts I needed to convert to 22.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Haider,
Here is a test that a Yellow poster did on a Cricket rifle, that he had bought and was told it preferred JSB 18.1 grain pellets. Then he tried some heavier pellets which did not shoot as well.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1401920103/Cricket+.22+Carbine+pellet+testing