Edgun Regrets
Well, i’ve had my edgun matador .25 R3M standard here in the UK since the end of January 2014 and i’m starting to have regrets about getting the gun.
I really enjoy the rifle which i use for rabbits, but having only put 200+ pellets through it i’m starting to see issues which have for now taken the rifle out of service and i’m back to using my daystates until these issues are fixed so this forums advice is appreciated.
I’ll start with the easy one first and hoepfully the pictures i’ve loaded will show up ok.
The seal in the forward breech that seals the bolt has blown, it shouldn’t have after only 200+ pellets, but thats life and its a disposable item so thanks to wanta edgun advice on my post yesterday i was able to source some replacement seals (thanks wanta edgun).
This is the forward breech seal concerned:
I need to unscrew this little allen key here, to set to the seal:
Can anyone tell me the size allen key needed as i find the edgun screws to be soft and easily rounded off.
The second issue, and not so easily fixed is the bolt has always been rough, and from reading the forum i know it takes 1500 peletes before the rifle parts are considered to be bedded in.
But its now come to the stage that the bolt is getting worse not better, so i took the breech off to take a look and this is what i’ve found:
I found small pieces of metal in the hammer assembly – is this normal? – you tell me please.
The breech looks like this:
Look closely and you might be able to see the plate that sits underneath the sliding pin is showing abrasion which might be the cause of the stiffness and the source of the pieces of metal.
I think this is an easy fix, i just need to clean, free up and polish these metal parts because this rifle is user friendly from a servicing side even for me.
My problem is the middle allen head bolt in the top row was badly cross threaded when i took it out – it now wont go back in and i have no desire to force it back in, worse still the far right top allen head bolt wont come out at all to the point it is now rounded off despite applying heat and freeing agent.
All of this means i cant get the top plate out to sort the problem out and i suspect if i did try to get the bolt out it will also be cross threaded.
I emailed Ed on the 26th May with these breech photos asking for advice on this breech issue, and despite sending two other reminder emails i’m still waiting a response.
So if it comes to it and i have to sort these problems myself can anybody recommend a way to remove the rounded bolt and tell me what size replacement bolt do i need to get for it.
All the best
Marc
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Viewing 7 replies - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
A friend of mine told me about this:
Source:
http://www.bm-techniek.nl/helicoils
It is a good solution for the thread in alu.
Regards, Robert.
Glad to see that things are looking up. Just a quick tip on extracting stripped and broken screws. I know I have had that frustration many times when a screw has broken off inside something. The usual methods most commonly employed involve drilling the screw/bolt and applying a screw extraction bit in a tap t-handle. I dont know how much success many of you have had especially when trying to save the threads when a bolt breaks off in tapped aluminum? I cant say that I’ve been too successful at all. I have tried many different screw extraction types of specialty bits. I must say that I just recently found somthing that has worked great and I have had like 85% + success! I found a set of reverse cut drill bits. In other words they spin backwards to cut or drill the hole. Typical bits rotate clockwise, these rotate counterclockwise or for ya blokes across the pond anticlockwise! I originally bought them as a joke, but soon found out how useful they are. If you very carefully center the bit on the broken screw head the bit will cut into the bolt and as it is cutting in it usually will bite or grab as the drill grabs the friction is enough as it turns in the oppsite direction to back it out of the hole. These things are the best thing I have ever used. I dont know if they were actually designed specifically for this application but it does a great job. I cant imagine why they designed these bits for anything else????
Well things are looking up for my edgun.
I went and purchased a new set of allen keys and I swopped out the breech seal for the duro 90 seal very easy – thanks Wingman for leting me know the correct allen key size.
And Ed has finally emailed me back to tell me he’s shipping out a new breach to me which means i dont have to mess about with drilling out the stuck bolt. Fair play to Ed for sticking by his product warrenty. I’d even bought the 3mm drill today to drill it out as suggested.
When i was changing the seal i had a good look round the hammer and cant see any wear on it so i’ve convinced myself it must be the cocking pin thats causing the metal filings. I’ve gave it a good clean out anyhow ready for when the new breech when it arrives.
I’ve also decided that i’m going to swopp the plate bolts out so that i hopefully wont have this problem in the future.
So for now, all thats left is to say a big thanks to the forum and to those members that replied to my post for the advice and support.
Your a great bunch!!
Marc
The stripped allen head bolt will come out easily with an appropriate sized Torx head bit inserted. You will need to find a bit that will not quite go into the rounded hole and then hammer it in. With it now hammered in very tightly, you can grip the bit with a driver or wrench and back the bolt out. This will most likely ruin the torx bit but they are not too expensive. If all else fails you can always drill the head off as described earlier.
AKay
Its a common occurrence on the little countersunk cap screws.. drill the head out with a 3mm (1/8″) drill bit just enough so the head of the cap screw falls off but drill no further.. remove the plate and grip the little drilled out remaining part of the cap screw with some pliers to remove.. it will most likely be only finger tight..
Replace all those cap screws with good quality 3mm x 8mm 11.9 or 12.9 grade screws and you will not strip them again.. It is actually the heads that seize up not the threads so put a bit of antisieze compound under the head to prevent it locking up again. Run a 3mm tap through the cross threaded one to sort that one out.
As for the metal filings, you will find something has “picked up”.. without looking closely myself I couldn’t say what but my guess is the cocking pin on the hammer. It looks to be very dry of grease too..
follow this link to sort that out..
http://www.talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=27986&start=20
You can also try polishing the cocking pin and shaping the surface that contacts the hammer with a little more of a radius for smoother operation…
The grub screw to remove the Breech Oring requires a 1.5mm Allen key
Just started a 10 hour shift, but I’ll reply at lunch or after work. No worries. Just needs to be chased with a tap and die. I’ve had to retap several of the threads on my gun. Make sure you address the bolt as well. Dnt tap it and then just put the same screwed up bolt back in it.
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Ok, I’ve been knocked out with a broken kidney for a few days and I see that you are getting a replacement and don’t need to do anything else but I’m going to include the below information cause I already typed it. Enjoy, or don’t. P.s. I’m not saying that helicoils s don’t work, they just don’t work well and especially in an application here things come back apart offten. Helicoils are like rabbits. One helicoiil becomes two ad two become three…. This is cause the damage the threads of the bolt, and then you put that damaged bolt in a diffrent hole and damage that one and so on and so on. If you have a helicoil in something, make sure you keep that bolt with that hole for ever.
Ahhhhh!!!! That thing is called a hellicoil and its the fucking Bain of my existence….. I was once stuck in a shop (for about ten years) that wouldn’t allow us to use anything but helicoils. I can’t stand those dam things. Its basically a spring that is wound to have the right inside threads. Guess what, just like a normal spring, if its stretched a little bit, the thread pitch changes. If the cert is too long and you have to cut it, it will leave a sharp edge that ends up damaging the fastener. If its not a blind hole, I might use a helicoil if I was in a bind. I’ve put tons of them in spark plug holes cause the thermocouples we used for cylinder temp readings went between the plug and the head. Like an extra washer. But I wuld never do it to something I loved. If your working on something of soft material and of great value(or hard to repalce) I would bite the bullet and find someone with a drill press.
As far as what I use for thread repair, this is what we used in mechanic school and again in basic machining classes my employer used to give. Ya, I know. They don’t use them, but the instructor hated helicoils as much as I do so he included them in his courses.
http://www.timesert.com/
The on,y downside to those is that there needs to be enough material around the hole for the counter-sink. There also cast “sleves” thwt don’t have the flange at the top, but they usualy are so large in diameter that they wouldn’t work in that application either.
Another thing to consider befor you start drilling. I’ve been able to get out just about any one of these screws with a torx bit on a hand impact. A hand impact is a chunk of metal with a 3/8″ drive n the end of it. When you hit it with a hammer it causes the drive to spin a little bit. You get the torque of the twist and the force of the hammer strike helps keep the bit from slipping. I have one that came in my basic tech kit when I was in school that looks like this
http://www.brewcitytools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/impact-torque-specialty/klein-70220.htm
Final edit::
I’m medicated out of my mind and have had to edit this post multiple times, so if you think you read it differently earlier, you probably did.