Filarms
I just gotta say this regarding the filarms rifles and people either insinuating or outright accusing Steve in CT of being in on it or somehow placing blame with him on several forums I visit.
Its BS how for SOME people the way this went down is suddenly Steve’s fault because he didnt know this was/is/possibly is a scam.. but THEY are the ones who not only ddnt think it was a scam… but they thought so well of it that they sent several hundreds of dollars for a sight unseen overseas and unproven rifle. Steve is an airgun nut… he got the same info as everyone else, lots of people backed filarms and gave them help.
I’m not saying either way if I think this is a scam.. I dont want to be accused of taking money. But if you sent this guy money and are now claiming that its someone’s fault other than YOUR own… then your a FOOL !!!
And to those guys patiently waiting for their guns.. I hope they show up and are what your hoping for.
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Personally I dont really read the Yellow unless someone here links something or says there is something over there of interest. It kinda seems strange to me that we can advertise stuff for sale here but then cant leave feedback, good or bad, on that purchase. I understand the BS that can happen such as that whole Okyas deal. Most folks see right through that or enough folks speak up that it doesnt last long.
I guess I still dont understand why we allow certain feedbacks, both good and bad on these forums but we have a policy against that? There are currently several threads where folks are leaving feedback on our tuners work or items they have bought or sold. If someone is spewing baseless accusations or just slinging dirt and trying to bring someones good name down then I understand that should be removed. Thats why we have mods, right?
I do have a dog in the fight as I sent my deposit to Chris a long time ago… during the first shipment. I do try to support the little guys. I’ve gotten a lot of first run items and had my hands in a lot of prototypes that turned out to be legit products. So far, I’ve not been shitted yet…
I’ve been pretty calm throughout the ordeal and havent bashed I dont think. I’ve stated my displeasure, but not bashed.
I think that Chris just got in over his head. I dont think him to be a scammer nor do I think that he has made off with the money. I do think he is embarrassed. I also think he is doing his company a GREAT disservice by not communicating better…. but I dont think he is trying to scam folks.
I hope I’m right.
What? So if someone has a legitimate complaint and wants to share it with the members here they aren’t allowed to? We bash Airforce product here all the time, is it just a “select” list of dealers or craftsmen that are immune from honest feedback? We allow bashing of “deals gone bad” with individual sellers here on the TAG. How is that different? If a person or business cant stand up tall behind their product or services why are we protecting them? This is how the BS starts IMO.
Shadoh,
If a gun is crap then by all means let us know. If there is a dealer or a tuner that has done you wrong then the YF board of inquiry is where we have decided to air these disputes.
Products are another thing all together and usually are not personal attacks. Dealers and Airgunsmiths have to deal with a lot of customers and as we have come to learn there are a lot of wierd and difficult people in the airgun hobby. The BOI on the Yellow Forum is the most used on the internet and therefore the most useful.
Let us not forget what Don Dragon attempted to do to our own Anthony266 reputation to further his own grudge and Tony sat there and did not say a word on a public forum. It was a one sided battle that the accused can not win.
So feel free to post comments and complaints about products but when it comes to airing disputes with dealers and airgunsmiths the BOI will get the message out to a wider audience.
What brought the no dealer bashing into affect on the main forum of the YF is a guy was telling his story on how Alan Zazandy was cheating him. Come to find out he was full of it and was trying to force Alan into giving him free stuff to shut him up….That is when the hammer dropped. Alan is awesome and it could have really damaged his business if the post were left on the YF. And that is not fair. So now there is a place to air disputes and will be checked out the DEALER BOI….works well
What? So if someone has a legitimate complaint and wants to share it with the members here they aren’t allowed to? We bash Airforce product here all the time, is it just a “select” list of dealers or craftsmen that are immune from honest feedback? We allow bashing of “deals gone bad” with individual sellers here on the TAG. How is that different? If a person or business cant stand up tall behind their product or services why are we protecting them? This is how the BS starts IMO.
Shadoh,
No ones saying you cant make a dealer complaint. (There’s a difference to me between a bash and a legitimate complaint too)… just saying theres already a place to put it thats read by a lot more people. There’s then no point posting it here AND the Yellow Dealer BOI.
I remember all too well the Oykas thing on TOG (and I dont mean how he went after Tony..). I mean how it started, with him bashing leupy about supposed sub par work.
It starts with a guy saying they got substandard work, then people come to the defence of the tuner/dealer/machinist and it just escalates into this big name calling free for all and the moderators have to step in and lock threads, delete posts and even ban people just to try and keep the peace. All that creates a ton of bad blood between members who were previously freinds and theres this whole stigma on the group.
I think we’d rather keep that off here…. and keep it on the Yellow Dealer BOI where thngs are kept in order and there are clear guidelines. Everyone will read it, and it will have the desired effect without getting everyone here all stirred up and pissing and moaning at each other on both sides of the issue.
Say for example someone had a problem about Anthony266/Talon Tunes….. They post it on the Yellow Dealer BOI…. people read it and take the message or leave it.
If you posted that here, you’d get guys saying the complaint was BS, then arguments and any moderation just to keep the peace would be seen as Tony (The forum OWNER) just keeping things quiet and swept under the rug….
Then on the other side of the coin… say someone has a complaint about ANY tuner OTHER than Tony. Your pretty much guaranteed that people would just say it was Tony trying to get rid of the competition no matter how it went down, thats what happened on TOG.. the OWNER mis used his power to settle a grudge by fielding a complaint from a member in public and bashing someone with only half the facts based on their own preconception.
What? So if someone has a legitimate complaint and wants to share it with the members here they aren’t allowed to? We bash Airforce product here all the time, is it just a “select” list of dealers or craftsmen that are immune from honest feedback? We allow bashing of “deals gone bad” with individual sellers here on the TAG. How is that different? If a person or business cant stand up tall behind their product or services why are we protecting them? This is how the BS starts IMO.
I’m sure its quite a few people, but I doubt that its a very large percentage of the overall number that visit the Yellow.
I was actually interested in buying one, I first saw rob mention that he had one coming and then went to the yellow to look up more info and saw how widely acclaimed they were….. I still have the email I sent Chris on April 6th. I wasnt happy with the fact I didnt receive a reply until Jun 4th or the answers he gave me so i decided not to bother getting one regardless of other peoples opinions and their blog.
First: I think it’s bull that people are blaming a forum owner for their personal actions..sack up ladies
Second: Wow, I mean…WOW. 😯 The QC on that rifle…god awful…
I know what your saying here. I think what roped people in was the fact that Filarms had some “major backers” which kinda blindsided people into the outrageous unproven claims….Sucks really, and I hope those that shelled out for those “rifles” get something..
Third: Tom was right, I don’t care how cynical YN is 😆 😆 😆
I hate the yellows format in that the threads replied to don’t get bumped to the top.
Yes, Don is upset about the banning, Ironic.
I haven’t heard about any deletions for a while now, past month or so. Most of the guys over at AGA are cool, if you don’t own a rapid you feel a little left out.
YN, you say not many had a horse in the race. I wonder how many, what the dollar exchange rate is and what it costs to have that platform machined. Somethings just don’t add up. I’m hoping they do and Chris is staying quiet till he has the goods. For all involved
I just read that Dragon has been banned from the Yellow and is whining it up. The irony is lost on him it seems, so I’m laughing extra hard for that.
The Caiman situation is just like any other business deal: if you want to get in at the begining of a new and untested company/product then you stand to win big or lose big. Always has been that way and always will be that way.
The same thing coming up day after day is probably going to get deleted because it gets old real quick when all it was is a “anyone heard from filarms or filarms took my money” etc and the legitimate complaint threads belonged elsewhere…. the YF Dealer BOI for example.
Way I see it is dont whine your thread making a complaint about a dealer got deleted when it wasnt posted in the correct place… put it in the Dealer BOI and it would still be there.
Not many people had a horse in the filarms race… so to read the same junk every day….. I know already that Chris took a lot of peoples money as deposits for guns and not many people got them, those that did were generally unhappy with leaking and other issues. I dont need to read that every day to refresh my memory. When something NEW comes up I’d LOVE to read about it (Don’s post with pictures was VERY informative.. With the addedd bonus that I also now know exactly where rob3dr lives – Enjoy the magazine subscriptions and pizza I sent your way rob 😈 ). But until then…. I’ll stick to my American and British made airguns and would much rather read things relevant to them. Just like I dont want to hear about Nigerian 409 scams everyday.
Plus when a thread gets deleted and people go elsewhere and whine about it… you often only get half the story. For example AA already had a beef with steve because he wouldnt let them spam for their own site on his….. but the story you get over there is that they were simply answering a question.
It amazes me how many people hate the yellow.. but they still go there, post junk and whine when it gets deleted. Why post there if you dont like that site and love another one thats so great.. unless its just to instigate problems so you can whine about it elsewhere.
I love how AA makes out like its the last bastion of free speech in the airgun scene.. when actually they whine and bitch over hunting threads all the time.
I think this idea about steve got started or discussed at airgunadvice best as i can tell. When complaints first started to come up or discussion went the wrong way threads disappered. I’m sure Steve is not the only one who has control over there at the yellow could easily have been one of his mods. But its his forum so he gets blamed. Might be a mod was just trying to put out the small fires poping up here and there. Maybe to buy Chris/Filarms some time?? I don’t know steve, i know what i’ve read and read his statement on the topic. I read what others have to say, and i suppose you have to decide for yourself.
To put money down on a Ag still in its final stages of refinement seems, well i wouldn’t do it. Me thinks the buyers had a hot item and wanted in before the prices went up after word got out on the great shot count, consistency, accuracy 🙄 and al the rest. Things with Filarms don’t add up, i hope they end up equaling out soon.
I hope the guns that are due people are what they expected.
As for the Yellow Forum and its owner Steve CT he did not back Filarms or promote them at all. He allowed a free avenue for us all to learn about airguns and if he did not allow discussion about FILARMS all the kooks would be screaming CENSORSHIP! He allows free flow of information on airguns and people complain.
What he does not allow is people bashing dealers of tuners on his forum because people lie and use the forum to further their own agendas. As a matter of fact WE DO NOT ALLOW DEALER BASHING HERE ON THE TALONAIRGUN FORUM EITHER….if anyone wants to make a complaint about a dealer then they can post on the YF BOI where it belongs.
I guess I am one of those silly people who actually took my money to an airgun dealer and actually bought a gun that existed and had a track record of several years….silly me.
I hope everone gets their guns…but no one was pointing a gun at you to send your cash to FILARMS…adults makes decisions and sometimes it does not work out. 8)
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…….If someone is spewing baseless accusations or just slinging dirt and trying to bring someones good name down then I understand that should be removed. Thats why we have mods, right?
I’ll refer to the Oykas incident again…. he was slinging shit, the mods deleted it, he was repeatedly warned by mods and ended up being banned… Then he came back using one of his many aliases and started attacking Drew and somehow sucked Anthony into it the whole mess even tho he wasnt a party to the original complaint oykas had, he was just doing what moderators so… try and keep the peace. When Oykas got banned a LOT of members backed Oykas…. caused a lot of bad blood and a big rift in TOG. Infact, I think I was the only Non moderator publicly backing Anthony and Drew…. and I took some shit for that. So I happen to have been personally involved in the type of crap that can get going.
If someone wrongs me you can bet your ass that people will hear about it. I’ll want the most people to hear about it so I’ll post it on the Yellow BOI or the Yellow Dealer BOI.
You can say all you want how people would see through shit slinging… but they wont, they havent in the past and they wont in the future. I STILL see crap regarding Oykas on other forums and I still see people buying into it.
Giving someone positive feedback is a bit different from negative. I dont think anyone is going to get bent about me saying Adam is good to deal with or Rabbits makes nice stocks and there isnt really an ulterior motive behind it.
Just look what happened with Tony & Dragon. You say not alloweing feedback is what caused that ???…… going totally overboard with the feedback thing is EXACTLY why we ARE here.