Firelapping the Haley and the RCBS Cowboy 85 grain bullet
I decided today would be a good day to firelap the 257 Haley.
John Bowman had told me he had seen dramatic results when he firelapped his .257 Scadalous, which was the first one made by the way.
This is my 3rd TJ barrel, the first two had been on the Ranger 45, the first one on the Ranger was very rough, so rough I asked for another barrel, the replacement barrel was rough also, but not quite as bad.
It is hard for me to compare the inside of the Ranger and Haley barrels simply because the Haley barrel is 55% smaller and hard to look into without a bore scope, which I do not have.
I bought the Wheeler Firelap kit from Midway and it contains instructions, three grades of grinding compound, 220, 320 and 600, and two small steel plates to roll the bullets in the grinding compound to imbed the grinding compound on the bullets.
Getting ready for the Firelapping job required having at least 45 to 60 lead bullets, a cleaning rod, and a lot of patches.
I started off, by removing the barrel from the Haley and throughly scrubbing the TJ barrel with a bronze brush, wrapped with bronze wool and loaded with abrasive JB Bore cleaning compound.
Then I rolled 15 each of the RCBS bullets, which do not shoot worth a damn, they keyhole and give shotgun patterns at 40 yards, so I figured instead of melting them down, I would use them to firelap, I rolled 45 in each of the three lapping compounds giving me 15 of each grit and put them into three seperate ziplock bags.
Between grinding compounds, I carefully washed my hands, and cleaned the plates, it is important that every thing is clean before you change grinding compounds, this means washing your hands, cleaning the plates and the barrel.
Then I reasembled the rifle, a easy task as you just thread the barrel thru the barrel band to the receiver and screw it on hand tight.
I fired a series of 5 shots, cleaned and repeated until I had fired all of the 220 grit bullets, then I repeated with the 320 grit and then the 600 grit.
Each time I cleaned, I used cotton patches made from a old T shirt soaked in Goof Off, followed by a dry patch and wiped the cleaning rod each stroke and carefully centered the rod in the guide each time, this stuff is abrasive and you can not be too careful.
I shot the 220 grit RCBS bullets into a old tree trunk, then about halfway thru on the 320 grit, I decided to see what they did at 40 yards.
I was astounded.
This is a target shot before firelapping,
The group on the left is while shooting the 320 grit bullets and the one on the right is after firelapping.
I have gotten good results with Firelapping in the past using the Wheeler Firelapping kit that Midway markets, but never this dramatic.
I used up about 5% of this kit on this job, one kit should last a lifetime if cared for and stored correctly.
Did it make the RCBS bullet a 285 yard contendor? For now it is too soon to tell. I only fired one at 285 yards and it appeared to tumble in the sunlight after about 200 yards, but at 40 yards it would give another 20 FPE over the 257420, whether that makes it worth while to keep the mold is the question. But now that it shoots, I need to explore velocity, alloys and sizing diameter.
Ts took about 3 hours to complete.
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
OH Yeah! Staying consistent, and on target! 😀
Mike
One of the main benefits to Firelaping is reduced metal fouling.
These groups are representing shots 15-25, 25-35, 35-45, from the barrel after 15 shots at 285 yards.
I then fired an additional 4 shots with the LBT bullets going really fast. 😈
The fouling was slight streaking at the bore and cleaned out with just 25 passes with the bronze brush and bronze wool.
As you can see, the fouling was simply not an issue at shot #45, if anything the groups were getting tighter.
257420 sized .257, 25% Lyman #2/75% lead, lubed with moly for sizing, 4000 PSI tethered.
RC
15 thru 25
25 thru 35
35 thru 45
Yep, the HS and RCBS are almost identical. RCBS has there line of COWBOY bullets which is always a bigger Meplat and fatter nose. The HS is a slight copy of the RCBS with a slightly pointier nose profile and smaller meplat.
Its like a cross between the 257420 and the RCBS.
RC, n my lil p shooter (td257), the RCBS and HS were almost identical in groups size (as well as looks) with the HS holding a slight advantage. So judging by my results with the HS and RJ’s results, your gun should actually shoot them slightly better than the RCBS bullets. I got the exact same results with the RCBS 308 cal 150 gr Cowboy bullet. It has a nasty meplat but doesn’t shoot as well as the regular 150 gr FP 308 bullet.
That’s why i was saying to buy them (HS bullets). They just might work in your gun for you or maybe not but, they might be a little better than the RCBS stuff.
Shot the .257 RCBS and the Lyman 257420 all sized to .257. The RBCS still needs to go out to EBAY.
I see why HS is so defensive about the RCBS slug, notice how similiar they are to his 87 grain bullets?
RC
Damned good info RC!
Most all calipers only measure to .001″. When i saw that my bullets were measuring between .257 and .258, i took them to Doug cause i knew he had a good MIC, i had him measure both my shot bullet from my bore and my freshly sized bullets. Exact measurements were .25735 for the shot bullet (about 200 fps outta my barrel by OVERFILLING causing slight valve lock 😉 ) and .25775 for my sized bullets.
I will be buying a MIC soon. RCBS calipers are great for now but i feel like i need a good MIC
Thank You for posting this RC. Exactly the thing I have been wanting to read!
I had a few questions on Fire Lapping, and this answered them all! 😉
Mike
One of the things I failed to mention on Firelapping is that it will both move your throat forward and increase your bore/groove diameter, but perhaps only to the point that exact mearsuring devices are needed to detect it.
Now on a 300 Ultra mag which has a throat that is continuely going south fast, maybe 900 shots max out of a barrel on that one if that, this is a worrisome thing, but on our air guns not so much I would think.
During Firelapping, I set the RCBS bullets right at the throat by putting a 257420 behind it and pushing it all the way forward and then removing the 257 420 before shooting.
After Firelapping, I slugged the barrel to see if the groove diameter was the same as it was when I received the rifle and before shooting it.
And it sure was!
Doug so accurately and informatively pointed out that my HF digital caliper belonged in the toilet because measurements will change from day to day because of the large margin of error, I responded that I use it primarily as a comparison tool.
Well the problem with my approach is, if your going to compare, do it all at once, not days a part. I had measured my bullets coming from my 258 sizer at .258, my caliper only goes to 3 places ie .258 and not .258675, and a week or so later I meaured the Haley bore at .258, but I did not compare them at the same time.
So after Firelapping as I said, I slugged the groove diameter of the barrel, and it was .257 and then I sat down and sized some bullets with my .257 that I has only used for about 10 slugs, and guess what, it matched the Haley bore in a comparisome test.
UGH, eat crow, clean the egg off my red pulsating face, thank you Doug, for chiming in on that. 😳
As I sit here waiting for dawn and downing coffee and doing those damn pushups, I have 20 RCBS bullets sized to .257 and 20 257420 bullets sized to .257 to test today for groups and velocity.
Now I did see a slight improvement in the few RCBS slugs that I had sized with that .257 sizing die, but still had tipping prior to Firelapping. And yesterday I only fired one down range and could see it tumbling in the afternoon sunlight at around 225 yards perhaps due to velocity decay, so I quit shooting them.
On a side note, the Shoebox broke down last night, I broke a belt on it and ordered two replacement belts from Shoebox within minutes. I should see the replacement mid week. But good thing is I have three full 66’s and two full 44’s and a partial full 44 waiting to get emptied and sent to Crowpopper.
On another note, I am thinking of ordering a Hoche tapered mold for this rifle. Hoche molds are nose pour, which means you never have overflow on the base. But more importantly, you can get them in a tapered mold.
I had one for my Sharps rifles, and out of 30 to 40 molds I have owned, it was by far the best built and accurate producer of bullets. The front band was .450 and the rear band was .459, I loaded it with three exposed lube grooves and being as I did not hunt with it, I could keep the bullets in a plastic bag to protect them from dirt.
Sutzen shooters used the tapered molds quite a bit in their Steven 44 and 44 1/2 rilfes and Bailey Hills, custom Borschardts, Ballards and well you name it all the rifles used around the turn of the century for off hand shooting and community competetion.
They would set the tapered bullet in the breech with a tool and then set a cartridge behind it in the chamber and shoot.
Why would this not work for an dedicated exact chamber and bullet combo in our rifles? Subsonnnic, different guy than our Greg, on the Adventurers forum has some tapered designs made by LBT that he sells bullets from and has success in the Sumatra type lever guns.
It’s only money.
RC
Someone say 100 gr 257?
That should put some whoa on it RoachCreek!
Syn,
Regarding the 257420, the wind was blowing hard enough that it was turning a custom made one off artwork windmill at the 50 yard line and lifting the flag at 225 yards.
But I was getting around 5.5 to 6 inches for 10 shots, which is close to what I got before under a lot better conditions.
At 40 yards the sample groups were perhaps a little tighter than before, but were only 5 shot groups, so nothing carved in stone yet Syn, but prelimary results with the 257420 look promising.
The thing is Jack cut the chamber or lead for a 100 grain bullet at my request. The RCBS 85 grainer is almost to the lands but not quite, the 257420 has a bit of freebore.
I wanted a rifle that would be as close to Transonnic with as heavy a bullet as I could shoot, the 257420 is right at 1135 at 4300 PSI in 30 degree weather. But as it warms up thing will speed up of course.
So some where down the line, as the rifle gets broken in and I play with more molds, such as this adjustable one made for a 25-20-77 if I get it, that I can adjust to find that sweet spot, once I find what it really likes, I will have the barrel set back and a lead cut for that specific bullet.
I am not much of a beliver in having several bullets for a airgun, especially if I am the one making them and have a unlimited supply.
RC
Interesting…
But i’m wondering.
How do the 257420’s shoot now?
FRIGGEN AWESOME RC! Awesome! IT”S ABOUT TIME…..lol!
Can’t wait to see the long range groups and theimprovement that fire lapping created.
I got my limbsaver in and so my work also starts……..AGAIN!
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Man, long range grouping, I can hardly believe it.