Hammer Sear Problem
I finally removed the hard to operate safety but while I had the punch and bench block handy, I removed the Hammer Sear to check it out.
What a rough finish for a trigger component ❗ They don’t waste any time grinding a finish on the hammer sear. I didn’t want to hone it and ruin the thin case hardening soooo, I used crocus cloth to remove any high spots and make it operate smoother. All went back together and appeared to operate well until I shot a number of rounds.
At the range I shot 54 x 7-10.6 grain .177 pellets and all was fine. Then after the second Heavy, 16.1 grain EJ’s, the sear wouldn’t easily latch. Then it was a struggle with it failing numerous times to latch while finishing up 10 EJ’s.
BACK ON THE WORK BENCH (kitchen table), I discovered the face of the Condor Hammer had a few like cuts in the surface while the sear appeared OK except now I noticed how loose it is in the frame. It’s bad enough the things mounting hole is oblong which doesn’t help keep it lined up. And, there is a lot of side play allowing it to basically flop around.
I couldn’t find any mention of washers to help position the sear so I made up a couple from some flexible plastic from my treasure drawer. I don’t throw much away, it might have other uses.
The added washers/spacers appear to be holding up under no ammo testing but it’ll be days yet before I can get to the range to really test it.
Has anyone had similar problems after removing the Safety and Or Hammer Sear ❓ Have I overlooked something obvious as often happens ❓ What else could be done to improve the operation of the hammer sear ❓
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Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2216
Check out Cyg’s post with the picture. You want to remove the material where the pink mark is. I had the same issue. Would be good for 50 or so rounds then no catch. I moved springs, stretched springs after removing the safety and then I found the above thread and it worked like a charm. I am able to keep a springs in their designed spot with no issues. Hope it helps.
Benneeb0y had it right again ❗
I had Sear latch problems even with my plastic spacer.
So I revisited the link Bennett0y gave to Cyg’s post. The intermediate lever was to hard to file with my rifle files so I resorted to trusty dremel. The latching surface is undercut with a small slot that gave me a limit to not get to close to the latch surface. Using a cutoff wheel, none of the grinding stones were small enough, I gradually ground up to the slot removing some of the surface below the latch. I can now run with the power wheel all the way past 12 without the Sear failing to latch.
Not everyone has this problem after removing the problematic safety. I had the problem while using a .177 x 12″ barrel in my Condor .22 x 24″ high flow tank and after removing the Condor hammer Spacer.
Thanks benneeb0y and Cyg ❗
I have a non stock hammer and do not have the 2 screw trigger mod.
Sam,
I ran 10 heavies through it in my small yard while the neighbors were all away. It worked real well with my plastic spacers and no wiggle slop on the Sear.
I also noticed slop of the Trigger and a little on the intermediate lever. That slop might be alright for carpenters but not for you or me and our weapons.
The next time I tear it down I’ll make a pin pattern and make up a full length plastic insert to displace the slop.
_/\_The crud was only between the barrel and hammer. Nowhere near any of the trigger or sear parts. Also this didn’t happen after quit using ATF and Co2. I think it was ATF blowing through worn out breech O-rings, I changed ’em also, when I changed over to high pressure air. Was concerned about pcp dieseling, that I now know is nothing to be concerned about.
..I cleaned all the ATF out, changed the worn breech o-rings, and was shocked to find that black goo between the hammer and barrel.
..BTW when I did the 2 screw trigger mod, I found the side to side slop with the trigger itself and was ridiculed as that was to be expected from AirForce. And it didn’t cause problems, but it bothered me anyway 😯
Hope you get it straightened out, enjoy.
Sam 😆
Guess I was was lucky that nothing wore out, or preventive maintenance works wonders?
Sam, I wonder if the crud you mentioned built up around the Sear pivot and kept it from sideways wiggle after you removed the Safety Slide?
I had a little buildup on the angled face of my Sear.
Edmund
Can say that I used maybe 12,000+ pellets of various weight and Brands using Co2 and Hpa! Bought maybe 5ooo pellets from PyramydAir bent tens discount and from other venders at the Roanoke Airgun expo and other venders, during three more years and counting A few thousand from online PyramydAir and 3000 Beemand Kodiaks 3 times in as many years from Tim at Mac1/Fastest pellet delivery on this Earh! (ordered on friday, in my mailbox on monday).
I removed the safety and later did the 2 screws trigger preload/overtravel mod and never had any problems with the trigger or sear. The stock hammer had spiral marks from the sear, but never any problems. The oring on the HiFlo valve disintegrated and the Hi-Flo valve stem broke in half, which Airforce repaired/replaced no questions asked.
Sold my condor and the Gentleman that bought it-is satisfied, so hope he has no problems with the sear.
When I switched over to HPA, the barrel had alot of crud between the hammer and barrel hammer bearing surface. And that didn’t effect anything that I noticed. I used plenty of Dexron III ATF for O-ring/pellet lube with CO2 to prevent o-ring failure.
Guess I was was lucky that nothing wore out, or preventive maintenance works wonders? I used TSI321 Synthetic lube on the triggrer! http://www.tsi301.com/tsi321moreinfo.htm Recommend by PilkGuns http://www.pilkguns.com/
Sam 😎
Well, maybe the problems show up sooner on a .22 Condor that’s converted to 12″ x .177.
However others also had this problem so it’s something for you lucky fellows to keep in mind. And remember the Safety Slide was performing a secondary job of keeping the wiggle off the Sear. It just may be cutting into the Hammer Face and prematurely wearing out your Sear mounting pin.
Removed my safety 500 shots ago when i did trigger set screw mod, no problems so far
Removed my Condor safety and never had any problems.
Sam 😎
Thanks for all the good ideas.
If you have the time I’ve written out my theory of how the Trigger Safety removal effects the Sear.
TRIGGER/SEAR/HAMMER before and after SAFETY BLOCK Removal.
The effect of eliminating the problematic Safety, that is especially hard to operate during medium to high Power Wheel settings, by removing the Safety Slide may eventually cause either of the following two problems;
1) The Hammer Sear will begin failing to latch, and
2) The Hammer Sear may not fully engage the Intermittent Trigger Lever causing unwanted Hammer release (accidental discharge).
I believe the reason for either of these two serious failures is that by design the Safety Slide has the secondary function of holding the Hammer Sear to the REAR in it’s elongated mounting hole after the firing operation, until the next cocking operation when the forward movement of the Hammer moves the Sear slightly forward so it clears the Intermediate Lever and then is released by the Hammer passing by and is spring loaded up into the relief at the front-bottom of the Breech. Then as we feel/hear this action we release forward pressure on the Breech Knob allowing BOTH the Hammer and Safety Slide, under their respective spring tensions to engage and move the Sear to the rear position where the Intermediate Lever is in position to prevent the Sear from toggling in the event of the Safety Slide being moved forward from it’s latched position blocking Sear release. Because the Hammer Sear is required to move on the pivot pin as well as forward and rearward via it’s elongated mounting hole, sideways movement (wiggle) was not a concern because the Safety Slide kept reward pressure on it, thereby keeping it aligned straight holding it against it’s mounting pin when the Hammer was not contacting it. In cocking the mechanism, the Sear is dragged forward by the Hammer in order to ensure the Sear’s rear latching extension will clear the forward latch extension of the Intermediate Trigger Lever.
With the Safety Slide removed, after firing there is nothing holding pressure on the Hammer Sear to keep it aligned as it has lots of sideways play. The Hammer Sear being sloppy loose, can get slightly out of square with the Hammer face, thus the slight cuts on the Hammer face when latching fails. And, the possibility of a miss-alignment of latching of the Hammer Sear and Intermediate Lever. On two occasions while having problems acquiring a latch, my Condor appeared to latch but slammed pass my thumb as I released forward pressure.
Several solutions offered so far definitely work. But, in order to address the newly created sloppy movement (wiggle) of the Hammer Sear, caused by the lack of rearward tension from the removed Safety Slide, I installed plastic washes/spacers on each side of the Sear at it’s mounting pin. I believe this fix t ensure a full square latch of the Sear and Intermediate Trigger Lever as we release the Hammer after the Sear snaps up into the Breech relief and as the Hammer presses the Sear to the rear.
Could try this
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2216
Check out Cyg’s post with the picture. You want to remove the material where the pink mark is. I had the same issue. Would be good for 50 or so rounds then no catch. I moved springs, stretched springs after removing the safety and then I found the above thread and it worked like a charm. I am able to keep a springs in their designed spot with no issues. Hope it helps.
Try and put a bit of a stretch on the sear spring.
Also I had the same thing happened to me after years of shooting my talon. What Anthony266 helped me figure out is that the bolt had worn just a bit and the sear was contacting the bolt and being pushed down just a bit. I deepend the cut out on the bolt and it solved the problem.
Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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No prob but I was just the messanger. Cyg did all the heavy lifting! He has a nice vid some where too where you can see how the trigger system works. Glad it worked for you!