Hand pumps and high end rifles
So, does anyone use a hand pump on their expensive rifles? I’m thinking Theobens, Daystates, FX’s, and what have you.
I believe Theoben voids the warranty if you use anything but clean dry air from a tank. Believe they mention hand pumps and compressors as voiding warranty. I’m not sure why a compressor is listed as that is what fills tanks.
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Thanks for the link/review.
The 4 stage allows for you to ‘gear up’ when pressure is above 2000psi. That will allow for easier pumping, but at a reduced efficiency. I always leave it as is and enjoy the added efficiency with only a minor increase in effort.
Here is a short review I did on the pump some time back…
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6345&highlight=review
One more question. As far as the difference between the FX three and four stage pump. Does the 4 stage just pump easier, more air, both, or one and not the other?
excessive heat it was producing. Maybe the Hill is just collecting the
same amount in the dry pac. I don’t really know. Just seems to me
the Hill is way better.
The Air entering the pump is the same regardless of how warm the pump is. Venting moisture is NOT sign of a bad pump.
Better venting out as “excessive water” when you bleed the pump than staying as moisture in the airinside the gun only to condense later.
I don’t mind using a hand pump at all. Theoben got me thinking when I read that using a hand pump will void their warranty.
Another thing that got me thinking was talking to someone about hydro tests on the carbon/fiberglass tanks was that they have to pass a internal visual too. The point of that internal visual was to see if the aluminum liner was changing color, turning black. What caused this color change was filling with them with compressors that did not have good water separators.
According to this person one of the reasons used tanks end up on the market is that during a hydro this change is noticed to be started and they know it will not pass it’s next hydro so they dump the cylinder with a just passed hydro.
Thinking I’ll just be aware of dirt and dust and not worry about it too much.
Thanks Gents.
I have a few high end guns…. and I use a hand pump 95% of the time. Yes, I own a CF tank, but it’s nothing fro me to use a hand pump.
If you are bleeding out a little moisture, thats a good thing. Open that bleed valve quickly to let it all escape. Thats the point of it!
I have the FX4 Stage and I have a Hill pump. The FX has been used 100% more than the Hill. It’s ultra efficient and I’ve never had any issues with it overheating. The Hill is a good pump, but no where near the efficiency of the FX. I’ve had the FX since their inception and I’ve had no problems.
I know folks rave about the Hill…and yes…they are good pumps, but I own both and the Hill collects dust…..
I’ve also disassembled quite a few of my PCP’s that have been primarily charged using a hand pump and have never…ever…. found a trace of moisture in them. Off the top of my head, I’ve had apart several Crosman PCP conversions, 2 DAQ’s, 3 Air Arms S4xx’s, a BSA Hornet, a Falcon PF25…. no moisture.
edited to add this… I live in a humid area…no dry heat here in the south east.
i have taken all my guns apart that have only been pumped all their life. like my bsa hornet. i have never seen moisture in them or any sign of it. but i did get dirt in my bsa (in the fill o ring) one time so now i put a plastic bag over the pump hose when not in use. but in the bottom of my hill pump i have found all kinds of shit. i clean it out ounce a month.
I have a fx royale and the whisper and use a hill pump. I don’t mind pumping at all. I pump a little, make up a target, pump a little more, set up the target , finish pumping and shoot a while….5 minutes tops on the prep to shoot , no sweat…..and a good little cardio ….get the hill pump if you can….it takes out the moisture and is very well make…….I just went to aoa and looked at your new rifle and it sure is pretty……..from what I can tell daystate is a for sure quality gun….enjoy………..don
I looked up Daystate’s owner manual and this is what they had to say about handpumps.
“This type of charger offers an inexpensive and convenient method of charging your rifle. They do not contain the sophisticated water extraction and dirt removal filters found in breathing quality air compressors. If you regularly use this type of charger, care should be taken to avoid condensation build-up from inside the pump being transferred to the rifle. The pump should not be used in sandy or dusty conditions. Always refer to the pump manufacturers operating instructions.”
I notice they did not totally disallow hand pumps though did point out their short comings.
When I’m finished pumping my air rifle on the last stroke I keep as much weight as possible on the handle and open the bleeding valve as quickly as possible. This gets the most moisture out.
The reason I ask is I haven’t found a good source yet to pump my carbon tank up to 4500 PSI. It has around 2800 psi in it now and I am thinking of saving it for when my Huntsman arrives and topping off with the hand pump.
I know it is only a matter of time before I end up with my own compressor unless I find an easily available HPA source..
Water is created from compressing the air. A slightly warmer pump would not make a noticeable difference. I don’t rate the dry pac as alot of the time air was bypassing mine and sucking through the inlet where it met the pump..
IMO the FX pump was producing excessive water, maybe from the
excessive heat it was producing. Maybe the Hill is just collecting the
same amount in the dry pac. I don’t really know. Just seems to me
the Hill is way better.
You have to buy the moisture pack separately(at lesat here) and I’m not convinced it does that good a job anyway… 😕
Do the hill pumps come with the moisture absorber things?
I am with pab, squirting more moisture out (assuming it’s the same environment) would lead me to think it’s blocking water from getting into the tank better.
piss all over my fingers when I was done pumping and bled the air.
I thought that alot of water must be going into the rifle if that much
was comming out of the bleed screw. It also got very warm with 5
minutes of pumping.
I returned it and got a Hill pump and it only get a very little warm
on occasion and never spits any moisture out of the bleed screw.
I use it to pump my Edgun about once or twice a week as I don’t
shoot all that much. I do not think I need to be concerned about my
internals rusting from using the Hill, but only time will tell.
…Matthew
Hmmmm, that would suggest the FX traps water better than the Hills. Unless you were using the FX in humid weather and the Hills in dry weather..?
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Another happy FX 4-stage user here. I rarely use the 4th stage unless I’m really tired, pumping to 210 bar using only the 3rd stage isn’t hard at all and I only weigh 160 lbs. The 4th stage is a noticeable reduction in pumping effort but you also notice the reduced stroke volume.
Another thing to mention, the FX uses a little cleaning pellet in the final hose fitting as a bit of a particulate filter.
Moisture from a handpump was a concern for me as well… after I used the pump through the winter months filling my Talon I removed the valve from the tank to inspect and found no traces of excessive moisture. After seeing that I didn’t have any second thoughts about using it to fill my EDgun when I don’t feel like using the scuba tank or when my tank is low.
One that that will probably lead to moisture in your gun is too many pump strokes without cracking the bleeder valve to purge the moisture trap. With enough continuous use it’s going to fill and start pushing water and air into your rifle– but that goes for any handpump with a moisture trap.