Hard cocking
I have a Gunpower Stealth in .20 and have switched the barrel to an 18″. I also put in a high flo valve. On advice, I added a hammer weight made to the exact dimensions of the Condor weight. Now the rifle is hard to cock and I see scoring on the rubbers on the end of the hammer. Any advice as to the causes and how to remedy?
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Thanks for replying. I will surely keep at it until I get some kind of accuracy out of this rifle. At this stage it is extremely frustrating to shoot, because you never know where the pellet is going to land. I will get some .22 pellets and check, to make absolutely sure of the caliber. The barrel was bought as a .20, from a reputable dealer so I am reasonably sure that if it is a .22 it would be a huge mistake on his side! Will report back on this as soon as I have more news.
Excellent work on getting your trigger sorted out.
I also would also cast suspicion on that barrel caliber being .22 and not .20
If the pellet is that loose in the breech it will definitely have negative effect on accuracy!
Pushing a pellet through the muzzle you will indeed encounter greater resistance due to the fact that the barrel on most all pellet guns are choked, including lother walther barrels.
I know that when I first experienced shooting my airforce/gunpower rifle with the lw barrel in .177 caliber, I was completely amazed at how accurate that a pellet gun could be! Crazy accurate and powerful! 50 metres with a .177, it was simple to place a handful of shots into cm groups.
I had experienced springers and some damn fine firearms but this thing shooting pellets just blew my socks off. You should have similiar results… Double check your caliber and/or get a different barrel as soon as you can possibly afford to, as it will be a worthy investment. I am not too familiar with .20, other than using that caliber as a kid back in the day when my pal had a sheridan pump pneumatic. I cant say what type of inhierent ballistic performance its capable but I am certain it must be better than what you are getting now.
Perhaps you could slug that barrel. That would involve placing a pellet in the breech, pushing it down the barrel with a stiff wooden or brass rod and then measuring the diameter of the slug with a micrometer to find out the true diameter of your barrel. Now keep in mind that the muzzle is choked so ya probably dont want to run it all the way but instead only halfway and back . Be careful not to marr or harm the fragile crown on the muzzle with the rod pushing the pellet back out. The crown also has great effect on accuracy.
Good job so far, ya keep at it and you will be rewarded. Definately consider another barrel perhaps in another caliber with the benefit of now having a multi caliber versatility too.
Sure seems like you may have a .22
Well, I also suspected this at first, but the pellets fit very tightly into the muzzle end of the barrel – so much so that you really have to use some force. I also have some Samyang pellets, which is quite a bit longer than the JSB and H&N pellets and they fit much tighter in the barrel. Problem with the Samyang pellets is that they are very heavy and there are lots of flawed pellets in a tin. They also show the same random grouping.
Glad you got the hard cocking thing sorted out. Now, on to the next problem! This may sound like a very stupid question BUT, are you absolutely sure that the new barrel is .20 and NOT .22? Your pellets should not be falling out of the gun once breeched. .20 cal is 5mm and .22 cal is 5.5mm.
In any case, if they are fitting that loosely , it would certainly affect accuracy and give you the “shotgun” patterning you are describing! :5:
OK, I sorted the hard cocking part – misplaced spring. Now, the issue of accuracy: I have found that the normal .20 pellets available here (JSB Exact and H&N Barracuda) fits in the barrel at the breech end very loosely – it will fall out if you tilt the rifle. Could this be one of the factors contributing to poor accuracy? The rifle will put two shots to the left of the bull, one shot to the far right (about 10cm away), the next one a bit lower and then back to the area of the first shot and so on – this with the rifle filled to about 2500psi. This happens down to about 1500psi. The barrel is a Lothar Walther barrel. You can also sometimes see the pellet making a kind of spiral at the lower pressure.
Jakoos, did you remove the safety or was it removed when you bought the rifle? If you removed it yourself, check that the trigger springs are all in their original positions-especially the last one on the sear that engages the hammer. There are 2 “slots” where the spring can fit, the normal round slot and a slightly elongated slot.
Check that its in the round slot and then also check that all the springs are of the same length-play around with the springs if need be and see what happens.
As you said, I am retracing my steps. The trigger (removed when I got the rifle but I have the parts!) is a steel wire-like thingie, yes. I suspect at this stage that one of the springs is maybe placed in a position where it can put too much pressure on the release and so causes the gouging. The springs all look the same, but are they the same in terms of stiffness? So many questions, and as you say, work really interferes! Fortunately today is Friday, which means a week-end ahead with time to properly attend to this. Thanks for your support!
:popcorn:
Hmmmmm…. interesting, so the plot now thickens?
Ok sir, you didnt mention which generation trigger and safety system that you have there. I will assume that you have the older style with the push rod type safety and not the flat metal bar that rides along the side length of the trigger housing inner frame. Because you said it had been removed.
If you are anything like me and have a tendency to sometimes dive right in and start taking things apart. I always change too many things all at one time and then get myself stuck not knowing which cause has which effect! 😳
Well maybe or maybe not….. I cant say that is or isnt your case here, but I think that you are pretty much getting there as you seem to retrace your steps and I believe you are well on the right track.
Your suspicion of the trigger control group sounds very likely or very worth investigating.
I believe you will get it here pretty soon if you keep up your tenacity and dont give up. I wish I could give ya a specific diagnosis. I think I would just have to see it for myself.
I would probably strip it down to all the pieces, and kinda puzzle it all back together with the help of one of the reference posts listed here or other online diagram. As you reassemble it, just take your time to massage the parts over real good for smooth slick operation. I dont recall any of the fire control springs except perhaps the safety being different from one or another but it seems that it might be easy to relocate the spring on the connector between the trigger and the hammer release trip. If it is indeed as I remember, than that perhaps would preclude the trip sear and hammer release thing-a-ma-jig (american acme type nomenclature for proper english widget!) from fully traveling the proper distance and the trip not completely recessing into the frame.
Strip it down, lay it all out and meticulously fit and observe. Thats what I would do . Oh but I do so obsess on such things that I call in sick from work so that my job, school, wife, kids or basically whatever resposibility fits the occasiin get in the way of me figuring it out right now all at once until it is done! It just is messed up that work interrupts us from what we really want to do! :rofl:
Ok I am not that funny nor that smart. So I will give ya some good moral support and will tell you that you can do it and will figure it out! Please do keep us up to date with your progress! :8:
OK, time for some feedback. I stripped the rifle last night and removed the hammer weight and replaced the original standard flow valve. I did not get a chance to shoot it, was already dark outside. But, the difficult cocking persists! It really needs force to be cocked. How do I solve the issues of the hammer digging into the release sear? The safety has been removed, so I am not sure if this may have contributed to the problem. Could it be that a trigger spring was placed in the wrong position?
Thanks for this, you just confirmed what I decided to go and do today when I get home from work. I was advised by local experts to use the hammer weight, apparently because the standard hammer is not enough to open the valve properly. By the way, the power wheel is on the lowest setting. I will first try without the hammer weight and then, if still not acceptable, revert to the standard valve. I really want the rifle to be consistent and accurate, I’m not looking to extract major power from it. I will report back as soon as I have gotten around to doing the above, time is a bit tight!
Is your spring binding or preloaded too much? What type of power wheel setting? It sounds like the hammer is locking up against the hammer release sear in the frame kinda untrue or isnt seating squarely against it. The spring could exert an uneven force and cause the hammer and breech to rise or travel sloppily. I’d try removing your homemade extra hammer weight. It might be hanging things up in there. The indentations evident on the outer guides of the hammer are from the hammer digging into the release sear when it is being forced with excessive and misdistributed spring pressure. I had similiar issues with custom fabricated hammers and heavy springs in a .257 conversion. Especially when using a newer 2013 generation 2 trigger/safety style frame. I doubt that you really need to use the extra spacer hammer weight. You should achieve a satisfactory tune without it. Even in the stock standard flow valved tank configurations, tgese guns are not for wanting of more power. They already capable of going hypersonic. Seemsveveryone kinda get carried away with more valve, higher pressure and heavier hammer, then chase the dragon trying to get it to work properly. I know I like to tinker just as much as the next guy, and I run a hot rod bullet slinging .257 but It kinda goes around full circle, where in the very basic stock form with standard flow tank/valve, simple stock hammer and normal tophat locked down with locktite , is a very much easier to manage/setup beast that is more consistient and reliable with less breakage and wearing out. I think Tim at Mac1, kinda had it figured out all along. Of course who listens,,, I didnt.
OK, so I took everything apart again last night. The gouge marks on the hammer is definitely from the slot where the bolt handle slides in when cocking. However, there are no burrs there, it seems as if the hammer is being forced upwards against this edged when cocking. Any suggestions?
Regarding the inconsistency, the top hat is not loose but I think it needs some adjustment as the rifle is very heavy on air at the moment. I am waiting for a chrony to see exactly what speed it is doing currently.
There are one or two tuners where I can send this rifle to locally, but I want to see if I can sort it out (with the help of this forum!) myself.
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
It may very we’ll be a top hat problem if you’re having problems with BOTH accuracy AND consistency. The factory top hat is notorious for coming loose.
You also may want to fill to a lower pressure. These guns tend to have a “sweet spot” around the 2700-2800 mark.
Keep us posted, we’ll figure it out!
Wildfire :5:
Hi,
Thanks for your reply! The barrel end is polished very smooth, everything is lubed. I will check for any burrs in the area and remove and report back. I am having a lot of issues with this rifle, accuracy and consistency is very poor, but I suspect a bit of fiddling with the top hat and fill pressure should solve that.
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I would enlist the aid of the dealer you purchased the gun from. Show him the loose fitting breach. He should surely recognize that this is a problem. Like I said, my first experiences with this air rifle platform was amazement at the plain out of the box accuracy.
Your’s should be too. I would be pleased at 1/2 the performance. I dont just say his because its lik my fvorite air rifle. There are many others that are mighty nice pieces of work. This gun isnt the ost ergonomical, or finely crafted artisan beauty, and doubtful as a true competitive tool for the serious marksman. It is what it is… a fairly affordable production gun that is highly vesatile and is an above average powerhouse, yet capable of decent accuracy. Very utilitarian. Your barrel would seem to be a bit of a lemon or somehow missed quality control or assurance. Hopefully your dealer is reputable and knowledgeable to recognize this and will get right on the ball to correct it. I would take it straight to him and let him try his own .20 & .22 pellets before you spendany of your own money trying to determine this. I feel frustrated for you. Because I believe that once you get the barrel issue straightened out , you will start to realize what this thing is supposed to be like. Because yours isnt nearly close to where it should be. The trigger may be your own problem but you owned it and made it right, but a barrel so loose isnt likely your own error.
Keep your chin up! You will get it right.