Q:

How do you determine an accurate shot count for your gun?

:hoot:

Obtaining a correct shot count, per fill, is a complex, difficult, and hard to repeat event. There are many variables…more than you might think.

Let’s take a look:

1) Air pressure in the gun’s air cylinder must be exactly the same when starting a shot count session. This can be difficult to determine with any degree of exactness using only the pcp air gauge.

2) A pcp air gauge is NOT a precision instrument! It is mechanically driven, the numbers and bar markings are tiny, the needle is quite thick by comparison, and it is extremely difficult to judge when to stop your count if going by visual inspection of the needle’s position.

3) Start time from a full air cylinder fill must be exactly the same when starting a comparison shot count session. Why? Because air gets hot when compressed into a pcp air cylinder, and that raises the psi. The higher the psi the higher the shot count. That same psi will slowly drop over the next 30 minutes to two hours, dependent on the ambient air temperature surrounding the gun. As little as 30 minutes in an air conditioned room, or one to two hours outside, can impact shot count totals.

4) End time for each shot count session is equally as important. If you take 30 seconds between shots in one shot count session, and one to two minutes between shots in the next shot count session, your final shot count total may if when shooting from a fresh fill. (see “3” above)

5) If one shot count session is taken indoors and compared against a second shot count session outdoors, your shot count total will likely vary. Again, air cylinder temperature is important.

6) You can sometimes fire one or more shots before the needle makes any noticeable movement.

The only way to obtain repeatable shot count results, from my experience and reading, is to duplicate the conditions as exactly as possible for each session. Even then you are best advised to undertake several shot count sessions, under identical conditions, and average the totals.

A hammer spring adjustment is really for fine tuning velocity, not for major changes.

A major change in pellet velocity usually requires a regulator adjustment. To be accurately undertaken, a regulator adjustment tool is required. (They can be purchased here on the forum. I believe Ernest has them.) Regulator adjustment without a gauge to show the precise drop off point is going to be an inaccurate and labor intensive undertaking. Not for the faint of heart, or for those who lack patience. Better to send the regulator off to an expert, or purchase the correct tool, then you can control your adjustment much more precisely. When it has been properly set, then the HST can be used to fine tune velocity for the pellet you choose to shoot.

Fortunately, most of us don’t require such exact measurements. However, if you want to adjust your HST, or regulator, setting, you might like to know if the adjustment was worth the effort in shot count, considering the gain, or loss, of pellet velocity. (Accuracy, per gun, per caliber, per fps, is another matter, best addressed in another topic)

Not everyone may agree with me, but there’s plenty of room to post your thoughts on this. It’s something everyone should have a working knowledge of in this sport.

Regards,

Uncle Hoot:

EdGun

All Replies

Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)

quote Hoot:

:hoot:

Ratso…are you following any of the above remarks? I hope it answers your question…for certain I’m not clever enough to keep up with the big boys…

I sometimes wish I was smart, but I’m a philosopher, not a rocket scientist like El Pimpo and Geyser Salsa! Once I get the gun sorted out to hit the target every time at 75 to 150 feet, I’m good to go.

I don’t give a rat’s ass about efficiency, bell curves, valve closing rates, influencing anyone’s ‘perfect balance’, or any other term with more than one syllable! I’ll be dead soon enough, and all I want is a good solid “POP!” when that 31gr pellet slams home on somethings innards.

The other thing I want is a decent knowledge of finding shot count per fill for the gun I’m shooting. That way I know when to re-fill and go again.

I’m getting 50 fpe right now. I’d like to get 60 fpe, but for certain that will take a regulator change.

Does anyone know what the .25 Vulcan regulator is set at from the factory??? Does anyone know how much higher I would need to go on the regulator to get a 31gr pellet up to 60 fpe? Now THATS information I can use.

Kind regards to all responders…

Uncle Hoot:

PS: Just so we are clear on one thing…I for damn sure am not interested in Geyser Salsa’s “Joules”!!!! :nono: :whoop: :nono:

Hoot the gun is too new to have that kind of information available. To get more power out of you Vulcan you will have to do a couple of things.
This is assuming you already exhausted the hammer spring
1 Increase regulator pressure
2 increase hammer spring
3 try a heavier spring before going in and adjust regulator to even more pressure.
After doing this the trial and error way you will probably get 2.5 clips worth of shots unless you fill to 250 bar

quote keyser soze:

Hoot you have no idea what you want. Turn your regulator up to 140-150 from 130 bar. With the Vulcan don’t forget to bring ear plugs.

:hoot:

Elder Abuse!!! Corporate Whore!!!

Count yourself lucky! Patrons of Walmart still shit their pants when I shop….

Ernest will turn my Vulcan into an instrument of silent death! I have a double-tubed, carbon fiber, vented, John Hagan mounted DonnyFL LDC on this baby!!! It’s so quiet I don’t even know when I shoot!!!

Uncle Hoot:

Hoot you have no idea what you want. Turn your regulator up to 140-150 from 130 bar. With the Vulcan don’t forget to bring ear plugs.

:hoot:

Ratso…are you following any of the above remarks? I hope it answers your question…for certain I’m not clever enough to keep up with the big boys…

I sometimes wish I was smart, but I’m a philosopher, not a rocket scientist like El Pimpo and Geyser Salsa! Once I get the gun sorted out to hit the target every time at 75 to 150 feet, I’m good to go.

I don’t give a rat’s ass about efficiency, bell curves, valve closing rates, influencing anyone’s ‘perfect balance’, or any other term with more than one syllable! I’ll be dead soon enough, and all I want is a good solid “POP!” when that 31gr pellet slams home on somethings innards.

The other thing I want is a decent knowledge of finding shot count per fill for the gun I’m shooting. That way I know when to re-fill and go again.

I’m getting 50 fpe right now. I’d like to get 60 fpe, but for certain that will take a regulator change.

Does anyone know what the .25 Vulcan regulator is set at from the factory??? Does anyone know how much higher I would need to go on the regulator to get a 31gr pellet up to 60 fpe? Now THATS information I can use.

Kind regards to all responders…

Uncle Hoot:

PS: Just so we are clear on one thing…I for damn sure am not interested in Geyser Salsa’s “Joules”!!!! :nono: :whoop: :nono:

Or buy a 1 liter cf paintball air cylinder, put it in your rucksack and connect the gun and the cylinder with a 1,5 meter filling hose 😀

Now back to your question.

IMO the HST influences shot count if the valve closes fast enough, meaning the valve should be able to close the air flow before the regulated air chamber is empty.

In my opinion on the R3 the HST has an impact on the shot count but getting the most out of your gun at the ftp you want is given by the perfect balance between the regulator AND the HST setting.

(But probably the tuners know much more about this)

:bow: :bow: :bow:

We are talking two different things here hoot. Efficiency and shot count. They are not one in the same. Most definitely turning the HST down on a R3 without touching the regulator will give you more shots per fill. I have done it. I experimented with my R3M 22. Taking the HST down and shooting the 18 grain at 650 gave me well north of 90 shots where shooting the 18s at 905 gives me about 65. But these numbers only tell part of the story. I don’t have my computer with me right now to give you the exact numbers but the 905/65 yielded a more efficient gun than the 650/90. I got more joules per CC with 905 fps. That’s what Ed is talking about when he said tune the HST to the regulator bell curve.

quote Pippo:

So basically you shot till 89% of its capacity, then you refill :thumb:
😀

:hoot:

The basic question I was asked is “…can a HST adjustment raise or lower the number of shots you get from a fill? Or…do you need to raise/lower the regulator?”

My answer was as listed above. Shot count is variable depending on multiple factors. I don’t know if a simple HST adjustment will change the shot count on an R3 Edgun. Does anyone have experience with this? My understanding of HST adjustment was to fine tune velocity for a given pellet weight so the shooter stays within the same velocity that gives him/her maximum accuracy for that gun.

Thoughts?

Hoot:

So basically you shot till 89% of its capacity, then you refill :thumb:
😀

I keep it simple. Look at the gauge when your gun falls off the regulator. I do this while I’m target shooting. Kind of like the neighborhood play in baseball I just look at the gauge needle as close enough. Let’s say that my gun fell off at 110. Then I always keep my gun 10 bar above that number.

Magnificent Uncle :bow: :bow: :bow: :hoot: ,

why not just buying a gun with a decent shot count and then just refill when you have reached 80-90% of capacity?

It’s like the 1911 fire capacity debate.

You want to shot .45 ACP but shot count is paramount for you? Then forget the 1911 and buy a Glock or FNP.

In the shorty bullpub airgun world this means forget about the Lelya and buy something else.

Does something change for you if instead of 15 shots you know that actually in some way you might get 16 shots from a fill but you need to stick to all these parameters and measurements?

Happy shooting! (And not happy calculating 😀 )

:bow: :bow: :bow:

:hoot:

If the shot drops, or strays, then you know something is out of specification. That can apply to air guns.

Any other thoughts or ideas?

Hoot:

Hoot , to be perfectly honest there is only one way to determine accurate shot count regardless if you are shooting a sling shot or a high
powered weapon . That is by the target placement of each shot . Applies to both open sights and scoped weapons . Regardless of type or
caliper of weapon the very most important factor is the skill factor of the person who uses that weapon . Even a spear used by a well trained
person may well be better than a person who has very little training with a certain weapon . Forty five years ago I was trained to be the very
best sniper with at that time the very best rifle and scope of that time and I have 43 personal war kills with that rifle with my best kill was
measured at 618 yds . Today that with all of the new and better weapons of today I would be considered a joke . Now making a kill at a mile
away is now a standard par to sniping . But it all pertains to the same solution , Time spent with the weapon and knowing it as well as you
know the back of your hand as the saying goes . Hoot , this is the best answer I can give you with the shooting skills that I know . I’m old and
maybe a younger generation of snipers who have been trained far better today than I have will be able to give you a better answer than me .
Hope that my input of info was of some help with your question , if not , please forgive an old trained sniper .

FROM : THE BIRDMAN

Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)

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