How to fix pellet spiral
My condor is accurate at any distance so long as I do not change distances. What is happening is that the pellet is spiraling so at each distance it will change poi. What can be done to fix this problem? Do I need a new barrel or can this one be fixed?
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Check out Teds Holdover.
He has a video about this. Something about the head size causing spiraling.
Knife Ya recon it has to do with how slick you have polished the bore as to how much re seasoning you have to do.to get the groups back, i have different responses from different pellets.
Deep cleaning leaves me with no accuracy at any distance.
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Yep, you just about always have to re-season the barrel. Some will re-season with fust 15-20 shots. Some take much more. 😥
I’ve noticed that my Condor is doing the same, I have a custom 24″ .22 barrel pushing 18gr Jsbs at 940fps. I can see the pellet spiral in the beginning and at 40yrds it prints a 2″ groups but after that the groups tighten up significantly. In windless conditions I often get sub 1″ groups at 100yrds. Doesn’t make sense. After cleaning the barrel with a pull through, the problem isn’t as bad and at 40yrds the groups tighten up a bit and more so beyond 50yrds. Deep cleaning leaves me with no accuracy at any distance.
Damn it RC, you made me go look up “Diablo” pellets… 😆
Wasp waisted. 😉
Did the pellets spiral after you used the bore paste?
My “deep cleaning” is only some solvent on patches, no brass brush and I use a blunted piece of weed-wacker line, no cleaning tip from a cleaning rod.
Also I have found that various tins of the JSB 177 pellets are horrible at 40-50 yards and some tins are great.
I had twelve tins of the new red label 10.34grain JSB heavies and only six were good, the bad six were printing between 1 1/2″ to 2″ at 45 yards and the others were printing sub 1/2″ at the same distance.
There was no rhyme or reason why one tine worked and the other didn’t.
With Tony’s new top hat with the large insert. I am 806fps at 3000psi down to 779fps at 2100psi. So high 700’s is what I shoot every day.
I think it is just characteristic of Diablo’s.
When I first got my Royale 500, I zeroed it at 260 yards and started shooting at a 5 gallon propane tank hanging from my 3×4 foot backstop.
It was my first attempt at plus 200 yard shooting with an air gun using Diablo’s and has lead to such rewarding results. At the time there were only a handful of people trying this full time as I do now.
I was lucky to get 3 out of 5 shots on that tank. I could see those Kings spiral and drop, the increased surface exposed by spiraling caused them to drop completely off the 3×4 plate. At the same time a rifle of far less accuracy potential if using Diablo’s would shoot circles around the vaunted FX Royale 500 by simply shooting cast bullets in it.
Tht rifle I eventually called the 25 LBT rifle at the time with a LW barrel, even though not nearly the rifle as my TJ barreled Haley I use now would shoot 5 shots into a 4 or 5 inch group with no trouble with cast bullets.
After thousands of shots thru the Haley with one of the many molds I have now for the Haley 257, really I need to do a TV reality show on hoarding molds, I do see under certain situations spiraling of cast bullets, but even at 260 yards they will land in at least a 3 inch group, you can see them when the light is right or if you film them in slow motion, they flicker as they spiral in the sunlight while bucking a headwind..
In the Haley it is primarily a result of shooting into a face wind. I suspect it is the wide metplate of the SWC design causing this, and will soon try spitzers to see if this is in fact true.
But lets face it, the Diablo was created for the BSA Improved Mdl D and the Crosman Mdl 1 to be a close range, subsonic projectile that would not stand the rigors of long range shooting, the designwas made to create drag to purposely make it shed velocity and range potential, and I think if there are any irregularities in the pellet that drag causes spiraling.
Modern PCP’s are making history and they are showing us the limitations of the century old Diablo design and they may well end up showing us that the Diablo is not the best design of high PCP velocities.
Thoughts to consider, powerful springers are hard to shoot accurately, is it totally because of their spring recoil, or is it because as velocity increases the design flaws and the limitations of diablo designs are magnified by the springer power plant and become apparent?
The other thing that is becoming readily apparent to me is that firearms are not the best venue to launch cast bullets, that distinction belongs to high pressure air.
RC
Whats your FPS
Deep Deep clean about 500 pellets ago. It has done it from the beginning with any pellet I put through it. I think I might try a brass brush to really clean things up. Assuming that is OK to use in a LW barrel. I used some jb bore paste last time.
Also, try a better quality pellet. The Eunjin’s are famous for this. I would first try some JSB’s at different velocity’s. My .25 will do it at anything over 930, and I can see slight deviation at 900. At 880-890 it’s flying true.
The Kodiac’s do it at just about any velocity in my .25, but are fantastic in the 24″ .22. But–Suck in the 18″ .22 I had. You just never know.
Pred’s in the .25 are fantastic at 50-60 yards, but start loosing out at 75 yards. A shame! They are a fantastic 😈 Squirrel stopper in .25!
KnifeMaker
When was the last time you cleaned it?
Not just pulling a few patches through but with some solvent?
My LW barrel starts to spiral pellets when it needs to be cleaned, roughly 250 pellets.
About every 5000 pellets I do a deep clean (with solvent).
Have you tried different pellets?
As far as barrel design, your LW is doing it, my ST FX was doing it, it is more a design factor of the Diablo’s.
For a century they were shot at relative closer ranges, then the PCP came about with its ease of shooting and the ranges increased, all guns seem to do it, some worse than others, but the barrel design does not seem to stop it.
I would get a pellet sampler, wait until I have the best conditions to observe them, or if you have a video camera and a seben mount and can take video’s to determine which ones do spiral less, you could find out pretty quick.
In my experience it is a factor involving distance. My Royale 500, would shoot bug holes at 50 3/4 inch at 80 and then start coming apart at 100 yards and beyond. At 150 yards better than 25 % were spiraling badly.
On the other hand, my Royale 400 did not do it. I traded the 500 for a Rapid with a LW barrel, it did not do it with the same ammo the Royale 500 did it with. I will soon find out if the Edgun does it.
So go figure.
RC
So what about a new barrel or maybe a Lothar Walther Polygon barrel? I’m not afraid to spend some money to get accuracy but don’t want to just try different things out. Here are two links on the Polygon barrel.
http://www.californiapredatorsclub.com/index.php?showtopic=27306
http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?t=16089&highlight=polygon
Pellet spiral is a common event, even with the most expensive rifles and the best pellets, meaning JSB’s.
My Royale 500 carbine did it both as a carbine and as a rifle, it got worse as the range increased.
Harry on the Yellow, and here at times, has done intensive tests regarding pellet spiral.
A dirty barrel and shooting into a head wind is a common cause, but some rilfes and pellet combo’s just simply spiral without any apparent cause..
At very long range, and if you can’t observe the spiral for what ever reason, the spiral pellets will manifest themselves as lower shots on your target.
Being a long distance shooter at heart, it is why I went to cast bullet air guns. But even they will spiral, albeit, only a fraction of the pattern of Diablo’s if they are shot into a headwind,
Regards,
Roachcreek
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Well Ya caught me. 😆 I was giving a generic answer. What most people go thru. In my polished bbl., it really only takes 2 or 3 shots. Sometimes none at all.
Today, I was switching between cast bullets and .25 JSB,s with no issues what so ever! Woo-Hoo!!! And a biggie, No leading at all. Can’t say that about a virgin .25 barrel I was testing this week. Leading like crazy! 😯
Mike