how to get a bell curve?
Hello guys, first post.
I have a new .25 Condor SS. I installed a TTT w/ a thin o-ring behind it and TT hammer w/ slap mod, removed the auto safety, polished the barrel, upgraded the breach o-rings, polished the inside of the frame and trigger. I have shot 350 JSB kings over my chrony and can’t get anything remotely resembling a bell cure. The shots are just a straight line down. I have tried filling from 3000-2150 and PW settings from highest to lowest and most in between. I have the TTT open as the insert was only shooting in the 700’s.The tophat is .91 from the base of the vavle. I would like to get 20-30 shots @ 940-950 fps level. What am I missing and/or not doing.
Thanks for any help you guys can give me.
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I had trouble getting a bell curve with the Condor but I think this holds true in general.
The spring tension is the key to the bell curve…that and tank pressure. Generally if the spring pre-load is too strong, you will get a linear, back side of the curve type of “ski slope” as they call it. Lighten the spring or up the pressure…or both
Pick a start pressure, then set your PW =1 (there is no zero) and shoot over the Chrony. If you get the ski slope then up the pressure until you start to see the bell. You can then play with the top hat gap until you are getting velocities you want. Best to stay in the high 800- low 900’s for JSB Exact Kings for .25.
I shoot at a starting pressure of about 2700 so I’m past the beginning of the curve. It took a little thought to realize that. 😳 I’m already in the flat-ish top of the curve to start then it’s down hill. If I were to start at 3000 I’d probably see the whole curve.
Personally, I wouldn’t worry about the “bell.” What you’re after is nice consistent velocities with minimal ES. Those are found at the middle of the curve. You will have minimal POI shift in this range which is in the 2400-2750psi area.
I shoot at:
2650-2700psi
PW=2
TH gap=0.95 with the o-ring
I get about 21 good shots with this setting.
All guns are different though, so what works for me might do nothing for you.
Good luck and let us know.
i have sent the package that i ordered for my friend, then he informed me that all adapters that i bought for him working perfectly on his GP SS ,,,thanks for you help brother ,,,
Lots of info’ available if you search….
A whole lot.
Not to mean you should follow my way exactly but you could use it in reference too. Every gun is a bit different or a lot it depends. It’s just that I wish I could have receive a little more help back then. But it’s kind of like what you have to expect when buying a AF gun, it’s a Modifiers Tuners Dreamers delight !
But with a bit of time and tons and I mean TONS of readings and some helpful guidance in what poster(s) make for good reads.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27882
Hope it can help you achieve your tuning of your Condor !
~ Regards , GKU
Mine is set up close to yours…
I myself would ditch the O ring that you put behind that top hat.
If you Have the TT top hat install the largest restrictor. Without the restrictor you’ll be blasting a string at over 1000 fps.
set ur power wheel around 8 or SO…
Fill it to around 2800 psi. Keep your gun tethered to your condor. so you have a decent gauge to watch pressures. just shut off you fill tank and leave the gauge hooked up. don’t bleed it
now start shooting and take mental notes. It will probably be low for the first few shots then it will start to climb.
after you get like 3 or 4 shots off i would turn the wheel up, go up a few number at a shot and watch your FPS climb…..
keep an eye on you PSI in the tank. if you get below 2000 and haven’t achieved your FPS you missed the window… fill it back to around 2800 and start shooting again
now don’t move your power wheel just yet.
Watch the numbers this time you should see a few shots low then it will smooth out and do a steady slow climb to a peak (somewhere around 2450 psi)…
while the numbers are climbing take notes of numbers and pressures it will help you.
so now that you have established a bell curve. time to start turning up the PW some more. I like to just kinda take 4 or so shots at around 2500 psi. then bring in back to 2500. If u want more FPS. turn up the PW some more. … you will find that at some point the pw will stop making power and you will be waisting air. so if you find that turning up the power wheel doesn’t raise the power . then back it off to right at that high point.
Not sure that you will be able to hit 950 with the insert. (no insert you will be way to fast) That is if you have a 24″ barrel
What size barrel you have?
Try this approach
Im Getting 43 shots from 890 to 911. 2700 psi down to 2k
……
Thanks for the suggestions knifemaker, I will give that a try. I’ll post some strings as soon as I get a chance.
Probably the reason that you are not getting any answers is that is is somewhat involved. Well, OK, a LOT involved. And this has been written about here countless times. I dont’ think many people want to start writeing a book on the same subject yet again. Thats a LOT of writeing. 😆
But here are a few suggestions. First, 3200 is way too high a pressure. Before some of us started shooting the bullet shooting custom guns here, any one suggesting a 3200psi fill would have been blasted for being unsafe. And Were. 🙄
But your stock gun is not going to open the valve well at such a high pressure. Try starting at 25000 to 2600 and raise it up and test again. 100 psi at a time. You want to see the fps slightly lower of the first few shots. The only way this is going to happen is to have either the pressure too high, or the pre load on the spring too low to open the valve completely.
You have some work ahead of you. And a LOT of shootiing!!! :8: Can’t really call that work can we? 😆
KnifeMaker
I forgot about you changing the oem top hat out. Try the higher fill first and see how that goes.
Thanks for the suggestion ldp, I will try filling up to 3200 and see what happens. In the mean time how dow I get the top hat gap smaller? I have the TT one piece and when I try and get any smaller gap than the .091 the valve releases air. I installed the TTT per Pandemic’s video.
pablouk: You are correct in the fact that there is an abundance of info on this forum, so much that is very diffucult to find the anwser you need sometimes. That is one of the reasons why we new people ask for help from people that have already done it. I have searched this forum extensively and rather throughly (over the last few months) which has helped me with evrything else, just not this particular problem, that’s why I asked.
Thanks for the respones
Any other ideas or suggestions are welcome
Lots of info’ available if you search….
I dont have a heavy hammer just the standard condor hammer setup so best i can do is give you some direction i would take. To me it sounds like that extra hammer weight is overpowering the valve not allowing any valve lock using 3k psi fills. Imho you could try two things. The first would be to set pw to zero and fill the tank to 3100 or even 3200 psi and shoot a string to see if you start getting the bell curve. Second thing if you do not want to use higher fills would be to close the top hat gap to .80 – .85 and shoot a string.
From what i know you have to experience yourself with hammer weight, hammer spring and valve spring…these three will give you the answer you seek….don’t forget to tell us what you have achieved. 🙄
Thanks a tons, I will contact him, ASAP, because my hill pump package arrived my city today, and I have to send it to my friend,,,
See finally I got an info from you,, thanks ,,,,
I use tanks to fill with. I’ve never used any of the hand pumps. Unfortunately I do not know the answer to your post, you might try emailing a guy named Joe Brancato info@airtanksforsale.com, he specializes in everything air related for airguns so he might could help you.
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there you go, good stuff to follow there