Inverted BathTub with only 2 bad spots
32 shot string from mostly factory Condor, 24″ barrel .22 cal. shooting Beeman Kodiaks 21.1 grain seated with ball end of Beeman pellet tool.
Fill pressure 2,600 PSI. Top Hat adjusted to 0.085″. POWER wheel set to 1 full turn.
Shot…PSI…….Velocity…..DEViation () indicate negative numbers
3…….2553……971.19…..(16)
4…….2530……922.42…..(65)
5…….2506……987.83…….0
6…….2483……957.29…..(30)
7…….2459……981.19……(6)
8…….2436……989.61…….2
9…….2413……994.98…….8
10…..2389…1,001.23……14
11…..2366……996.45…….9
12…..2342…1,000.99……14
13…..2319……997.19……10
14…..2295……994.33…….7
15…..2272…1,003.39……16
16…..2248…1,004.97……18
17…..2225…1,002.98……16
18…..2202…1,002.23……15
19…..2178…1,002.23……15
20…..2155…1,000.57……13
21…..2131…1,003.97……17
22…..2108…1,004.89……17
23…..2084……999.58……12
24…..2061……994.98…….8
25…..2038……996.29…….9
26…..2014……992.04…….5
27…..1991……983.74……(4)
28…..1967……976.91…..(10)
29…..1944……976.68…..(11)
30…..1920……973.69…..(14)
31…..1897……969.01…..(18)
32…..1873……968.24…..(19)
ENERGY MAX. = 47 foot pounds
Energy Minimun = 40 foot pounds
STANDARD DEVIATION = 17.9 feet per second
My guess is that shots # 4 & 6 were adversely affected by hammer inconsistency. I’m thinking I may need to check the hammer/breech area for burs and maybe get a one piece hammer.
What else could cause such a spur-attic inconsistency?
All Replies
24 shot string from mostly factory Condor, 24″ barrel .22 cal. shooting Beeman Kodiaks 21.1 grain seated with ball end of Beeman pellet tool.
Fill pressure 2,600 PSI. Top Hat adjusted to 0.085″. POWER wheel set to 1 full turn.
Shot…PSI…….Velocity…..DEViation () indicate negative numbers
1…….2600……949.78…..(27)
2…….2577……977.07…….0
3…….2554……975.65……(1)
4…….2531……970.57……(6)
5…….2508……967.93……(9)
6…….2485……976.75…….0
7…….2463……978.25…….1
8…….2440……975.26……(2)
9…….2417……986.79……10
10…..2394……982.46…….5
11…..2371……986.22…….9
12…..2348……991.96……15
13…..2325……993.92……17
14…..2302……888.63…..(88)
15…..2279……983.10…….6
16…..2256……987.91……11
17…..2233……989.61……13
18…..2210……988.48……11
19…..2188……985.02…….8
20…..2165……992.61……16
21…..2142……984.46…….7
22…..2119……976.91…….0
23…..2096……977.94…….1
24…..2073……980.95…….4
25…..2038……000.00
26…..2014……000.00
27…..1991……000.00
28…..1967……000.00
29…..1944……000.00
30…..1920……000.00
31…..1897……000.00
32…..1873……000.00
ENERGY MAX. = 46 foot pounds
Energy Minimun = 37 foot pounds
STANDARD DEVIATION = 21.1 feet per second
If I took out the one bad shor #14 the standard deviation would be somewhere arount 9.5.
The temperature was 11 degree colder today at 21F. The clouds cleared late in the day so I got to the range, set up and got 24 chrono’d shots and then all errors with reading of 0000.00 as the sum got down behind the trees.
All settings were exactly the same as the previous 32 shot string. The fill pressure may be a little off as it is hard to get an exact reading even on my new HILL pump. I have to say that the Hill pump has crisper readings without so much needle bounce. Another replacement arrived today from that other company so now I have to decide if I’ll send it back to MidWayUSA who apparently has a good return policy.
It may be about 4-5 days before I can get back out to the range, what with company coming and 2 birthday parties for Mom’s 90th on Jan. 1st.
Thanks for all the help and please make any more suggestions you think of. I’m loving my Condor.
I have found that i get low fps shots in my strings if the power wheel is not set just right for the pressure in the tank. For peak consistancy i am at around 2300 and power wheel 4.6.
this is close to highest fps for my string i am just over the curve of the bath tub as you say,. i am not after a shot string right now, i am after peak consistancy, i only shoot around 25 shots or less and then top the tank back off,
Powderburner,
This is great information! I would not have thought to raise the power wheel because of getting close to MACH I. I did notice that my groups were really good for the last 10 shots. Before that I was re-using some targets and was mostly interested in getting good chrono readings quickly before the good light went away and the fingers got numb. My goal is to get back to the 100 yard range with the 21.1 grain Kodiaks. Previously with 28 grain EJs I impressed a couple (excuse me) powder burners with a 10 shot 6″ group at 100 yards. I know that isn’t really good but they weren’t doing that good with their powder burners.
I hope that low Power Wheel settings work out because its a lot easier to cock in cold weather and I may be able to go back to EJs or other heavies if needed for more power at 100 yards.
Thanks again for the info.
Exactly what i have seen, There is a sweet spot for a particular pellet , Pressure,power wheel adjustment. and top hat adjustment.
I am sure it will be the same for the regulator , all will have to be tuned for peak performance.
In addition to shot consistancy, the idea of just filling your tank to 3000 and shooting it down to regulated pressure without worrying about any power curve is pretty appealing to me.In shooting strings I notice that groups tighten up at a very specific velocity level ( 960 with 25 JSB monsters with my rifle ). With a regulator I think we can tune a rifle to a specific pellet weight at a specific velocity for improved accuracy.
yes this is almost perfect as far as the fps and the curve with that pellet weight if that is what your looking for, if anything you might just start turning up the power wheel a little to get get rid of the low shot s .
The power wheel may not be up enought for the higher tank pressure, you notice that it did not happen any more after the pressure came down.
I think some of you guys might have looked past how good the posted string really is. There are only a couple suspect shots there and they happen before a great string of 20.
Regulators are not without their own set of problems. They fail and need service, they add weight and complexity and they generally reduce the adjustability of the gun (at least as far as top end goes). Yes, you can get a lot of consistent shots with a regulator while everything is working but if you can get what you need without one, why bother?
Yeah but hold over if you look at their past track record, we’re better off building it ourselves. Most of the best stuff out there is stuff made by members here.
Well Im no machineist or engineer, but I do from shooting that the Condor would really be in the top shelf PCPS if this regulator thing can get solved.
Its the only thing standing in the way of being a top notch shooter.
So keep up the good work guys and maybe airforce will take a hint and actually do something about it.
Try turning your power wheel up a little at a time to around 3 or 4 if the variation keeps up,
I have found that i get low fps shots in my strings if the power wheel is not set just right for the pressure in the tank. For peak consistancy i am at around 2300 and power wheel 4.6.
this is close to highest fps for my string i am just over the curve of the bath tub as you say,. i am not after a shot string right now, i am after peak consistancy, i only shoot around 25 shots or less and then top the tank back off,
Rowdy,
I guess I’m a couple years or so behind you. My needs are to develop a consistent long string of 32 shots (that’s the limit of my Chrony’s memory) and since my power source is only a hand pump, I will then shorten my shot string to probably 15 shots. Then a relatively short pump session and back to the range. Then for hunting I doubt that I would ever need more than half a dozen shots in one day. If we go to battle it’s the AR15 and bushels of lead down range.
Also, I don’t think the trigger hammer arrangement of the AF rifles lend themselves to get max. benefit of a regulated tank. I’m just a novice at this but it seems the trigger should be more directly connected to the final chamber of a regulated system. No doubt the regulated tank will have some benefit for shooting long strings but for it’s optimal use it should have a different triggering mechanism than the AF rifle has. Maybe by the time you get it perfected I’ll have the bucks to get one.
My immediate plans are to do like Pab suggested and run more strings at my present settings and then like Jerry suggested to cut the fill to about 2460 and run a shorter string and see if the fps hold true.
It looks like snow and a high of freezing for the next week. With some luck I may get enough bright sky to use the Chrony in between the snow storms.
I get what you are saying about the difference in valve seating from the pump adapter to a hammer strike but that doesn’t account for my string shots #4 and #6 being the two radically different. Or, are you saying that the whole initial Rise in fps at the beginning of the bathtub curve, shots #1 through #8 or #9 are caused by initially poor valve seating?
Well not exactly dude, but it is all part of the setup, that all said; what we need to start off with will be the regulated system… That will allow a more even air flow and, a more even amount of air to flow per/shot…
We are going to still have the curve, no matter what we do… Even if you leave the quick connect hooked to your scuba tank… The problem that makes this the most difficult to really understand and get a grip on it, is the fact every single little thing you do with your setup, changes the out come in a big way… Some of which has blown me away at the out come…
You get things moving and think you are just about got this all figured out and then all of a sudden, its like OMG!!! You have got to be kidding me LOL… I have spent years messing with my Condor and I will admit I still don’t have her all figured out just yet… But I do have a direction I want to move and try a few things out and the reg is one of the pieces I want to do. I saw the freakin’ EtaC of Jims on a post just recently here and it was another one of those OMG moments LOL… I quickly bought one and took the quick fill out of the side of my OEM valve and screwed the burst disc back in and now have the Condor fitted with the EtaC… Its just another one of the parts to the puzzle I am moving toward a more perfect big bird here…
Far as your shots 4-6 and the others I saw, the bell curve in a whole;you need is to be able to move this string count out more first… Then you need to get your setup more what I call balanced… That is where your firing cycle is closer to the same amount of energy it takes to open and closethe valve… That way you have less purge/bounce and no over dirve of any of the parts in the system… Its what I call balanced or a happy Bird LOL…
I said I know it. I DIDN’T say I use it. lol.
Hmmmmmmmm, thats not what your wife says. 😆
Rowdy,
I get what you are saying about the difference in valve seating from the pump adapter to a hammer strike but that doesn’t account for my string shots #4 and #6 being the two radically different. Or, are you saying that the whole initial Rise in fps at the beginning of the bathtub curve, shots #1 through #8 or #9 are caused by initially poor valve seating?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Dont touch nuffin 😎 😆
9.5sd (yeah ignore that dud)
Can’t ask a whole lot more from an unregulated rifle. You would get even better consistancy using a Blod valve. My sd across a 20 string is about 6 average, on a good day it will do around 4 😎 Freshly cleaned frame, dry lubed hammer and new orings is the best time to go for that trophy sd 😆