Is the Condor right for me? AF/Sumatra/MRod/Matador [LONG!!]
Hello everyone! Been poking around here and some other forums looking for my second PCP. Currently I have a .22 Discovery with a TKO 6.5″ LDC (VERY quiet – Live in a condo and upstairs neighbors are old and don’t say anything) and hand pump. I will be buying a 4500psi 88cf tank next in anticipation for my next rifle.
I’ll be mainly doing some plinking, target shooting, and small game hunting.
I’m looking for a gun that meets the following criteria:
1) Can fire either 15.9 or 18.1 0.22 caliber JSB’s for 80+ shots in the 900-950 range (IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?) Ok 60+ shots is acceptable, but 80-110 would be sweet.
2) Is QUIET and neighborhood friendly. Looking for something in Marauder or Discovery + LDC quiet. I have old neighbors that live upstairs and they are nosy. My Disco+TKO LDC sounds like a fart when it shoots. No suspicion from them ever!
3) I want it to have the LDC removable so when I go to the range it doesn’t draw any red flags or questions about the obvious LDC. Shroud with baffles should be ok as it’s built into the rifle. I would prefer it to be LOUD when I remove the LDC so at the range I don’t feel like a sissy next to the 7.62’s firing off (LOL)
4) My price range is around $700. Willing to go up and down a little. I already have a scope that I can live with. A Leapers 3-9×32 Golden Image AO Mildot
5) Be able to shoot 1/2″ at 50 yards.
6) If tuned for the 28ish FPE low end, is there a configuration that will allow me to use the power adjuster to bring it up to 44FPE on the fly, or would it require me to disassemble and re-tuning with a chrony to get it up there?
7) I will be shooting from 10-40 yards at home, and 50/100 at the range.
8) Weight/length is not much of an issue as I won’t be hauling it around in the woods.
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Is a Condor or Talon my best bet? I know barrel length, hammer, and valve will all make the difference in what I’m looking for. Talon Tunes (I’m already in love with Tony’s work) or other tuner? RLAirGun? I like the Stubby’s look a lot (because EdGun Matador is what I REALLY want but $1600 is crazy…. right now)
Other options I’m looking at are a Sumatra 2500 500cc, but this good is SUPER loud from what everyone tells me. I’m ok shooting my Discovery at home, but I would rather consolidate my air rifle needs if possible, as I can save money on my next rifle by selling my current. Another option I was looking at is a Marauder (TT black one is the SEX!) but I am really a fan of the tactical look of the AF rifles. If I got an Mrod I’d buy the $300 TerryX AR tactical stock for it ($$$ for just looks!!!).
I do not have a chrony (YET) but I see one over the horizon for me. If none of these options fit me well I think I may just save up for the EdGun Matador and pray I can even buy one when I save up the cash.
Thanks everyone! Sorry for the long post but I like to ask specific questions to make sure I get specific answers. =)[/u][/list]
EDIT: I’ve seen some Condors for sale and pictures of other AF rifles. Is it me or does the air tank look like it’s bending downwards from where you screw it in? Does that area bend over time because the weight of the air tank? Looks like a pretty brittle point in the construction of the rifle. If any owners can comment on that also it would be great. Thanks again!
EDIT2: If an AF rifle is right for me, which one should I start with? I like the stubby stock so if any of those will work as a good starting point, do I need the Extreme or Hi-Flo version? If I can get all my criteria met with the least hassle all the better. I’m almost positive I can’t get all of that out the box. Perhaps I should contact Tony and see what he can do for me?
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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
🙄 🙄 🙄
😯 🙂
((quote))
((or be really anal like a lot of us and only shoot the ten tightest shots in the string and then refill to that sweet spot))
I’ll have you know
i havent shot mine thru a chrony or short filled in i dont know when,just been plugging away. 😉
🙄 🙄 😆
Hmmmm.
A longer barrel does not make for a more accurate gun. Certainly not in an air rifle.
Also a longer barrel will hold the valve open LONGER, due to increased back pressure times, though I suspect that by the time a pellet has travelled 10″ or so down the barrel, the pressure would have reduced sufficiently for the valve to close again, so that may be a moot point. The reason you max out a gun with a 12″ barrel is because the pellet doesn’t spend much time in there, so you need a big toot of air. If you kept the same settings and slung in a 24″, you’d use as much air if not more, but now your pellet is going spastic speeds. The reason you do save air is because you turn it all down, back to the speeds it was shooting on the 12″ Tweak it right and you can get each shot using just the right amount of air for the desired speed. On a 24″ barrel shooting say Kodiaks at 1000fps from a 2700 fill, you can expect 25-30 good shots on a bell curve. Depending on how well you can tune the stock parts, you can flatten the curve to some degree, or be really anal like a lot of us and only shoot the ten tightest shots in the string and then refill to that sweet spot. 10 good shots is plenty for a evening hunt.
You want a basic Talon + best LDC you can afford. Then as money allows buy a Hi-flow valve and tank. Two tanks is the quickest and easiest way to swap power levels. Set each tank up and make a note of pw settings. Also zero with each tank, and make a note of clicks needed to rezero between each tank. Then(in theory) its just a tank swap, twist the PW, do the clicks and you’re done.
Sweet. Thanks for all the info everyone. When I raise the funds I’m going to give Tony a call and see if he can come up with something to fit my needs. Good to know that it’s feasible as I love the look of the AF rifles.
Thanks again everyone for all the input 😀
80grit, youre probably right- i keep forgetting to consider other variables w/airguns…like the back pressure closing the valve faster w/a longer barrel.
im not sure a ballistic chart would be feasable for an airgun, would it? i mean, pellets are affected by alot more that real steel bullets, and as we all know, accuracy is pretty much just consistancy- and calculating balistics is also just a matter of consistancy… but w/varying tank pressures, gun setups and weather…i would think it would be REALLY hard to gather the data for a chart like that…wouldnt it?
air use would depend on the desired velocity.if you were trying to max out a pellet with a 12″ barrel you would have to turn the gun, top hat, power wheel up allot and waste air in doing so to get the velocity, were as the 24″ would get this same velocity with less air, more conservative gun settings, saving allot of air, bigger shot count etc.
now you can do the same thing with the 24″ with the heaviest pellets , turning all gun settings up to get the max velocity from heavy pellets in turn using allot of air, and setting the gun up on the edge of waisting air.
now here is one i have not thought about, if you wanted to turn the condor down to the 450 fps area, (which i have shot mine at, with huge shot count) would the 12″ be even more effiecient than the 24″ . 💡
SSS, your last sentence made me wonder if anyone has ever made a general “balistic chart” for holdover for a certain pellet, travelling at a speed, at specific distances?? I know about chairgun, etc. but couldn’t we answer(by consulting a chart) when asked: how many inches does an 18 gr exact drop from a 40 yard zero at say 120 yards travelling 1000 fps from the muzzle???
It would have to be a table because of the variables. I use iSnipe for the iPhone to do some rough calculations. I zero for 50 yards and it can tell me the drop at 100 given the fps.
Caboose212, I never thought this was true, but I could be wrong. Doesn’t a longer barrel with more friction create more back pressure closing the valve faster, thus saving air as oppossed to wasting air? If so, the exact opposite would be true: that a shorter barrel would waste more air???
SSS, your last sentence made me wonder if anyone has ever made a general “balistic chart” for holdover for a certain pellet, travelling at a speed, at specific distances?? I know about chairgun, etc. but couldn’t we answer(by consulting a chart) when asked: how many inches does an 18 gr exact drop from a 40 yard zero at say 120 yards travelling 1000 fps from the muzzle???
My humble opinion: you need two guns. The disco indoors and an unshrouded 22 condor for the range with a good 3-9 scope for 50 yards. 100 requires a lot of hold over.
i would just save up more money and keep shooting the Disco for now, until you can either find another rifle to fit all your criteria, or you can get a Talon/Condor (stock or custom) that’ll fit your needs.
im pretty sure a longer barrel would actually eat up more air because youre trying to push that pellet out of a longer tube…more friction. but a longer barrel is better for accuracy and sound supression.
etac reg would give you more effective shots per tank…but there again, youre spending more money. again, lurk on the forum some more, look at/ask about other people’s set-ups and save up more money so you can get the gun you want.
if i were going to build a gun for your situation, it would probably go like this:
etac, w/a larger tank (for shot count, and better reg)
modified valve- tony or walt (more velocity)
24″ barrel, w/a full baffled shroud…though LDC’s are good, baffled is better IMO (for sound suppression)
the scope would be your preferance…everyone’s different. and since im building a fictitional gun, id definatly throw in some of WOK’s stuff…looks good, and i hear works awesome! of course this rifle would probably be over a grand…talk to Tony- see how much his AAA rifle is- all you’d have to do is add the ETac…
Thank you for the input everyone! I love the look of the AF rifles but it may be out of my budget range if I want to fulfill all the criteria. I have not discounted the AF platform yet though! I would be willing to use it only at the range until I can afford the high end LDC. 😉
I know a longer barrel makes the same pressure behind a pellet go faster than on a shorter barrel with the same pressure. Is it safe to say that it would also increase shot count because it requires less air? What about an ETAC/Regulator with a low PSI setting, will that help me reach my high shot count desired on light weight (15.9-16.0gr) 0.22″ pellets?
I’m still a bit away from buying my next PCP but I’m just looking at my options ahead of time. I’ve scoured through the other “is this rifle for me?” posts, and none of them have the same criteria that I have.
Thanks again everyone for your input.
A Talon ss with a 24 inch barrel and shroud will fill your needs much better. With that bsarrel length it bridges the gap between the Talon SS and the Condor and is much gentler to shoot, both on your wallet (air) and your neighbors peace of mind.
With 18 grain Exacts pushing them as hard as they will go, you will get 30 or more shots at 920 FPS and still be pretty quiet. You can lower the power much easier with the Talon valve and find it a much better gun for your needs.
I used just such a set up last harverst to do pest birding here on the vineyard. I shot over 700 Starlings in about one month, the furtherest at 148 yards.
Also with the SS and a short 12 inch barrel and end cap with internals to quiet it more, in 177 you will be very stealthy and get closer to the shot count you desire. Read some of the posts from authors such as Lurker and Packrat, they have done just about anything that is possible with the 177 SS.
Regards,
Roachcreek
Too many questions and I don’t think I have the time right now to advise on all of the, but here are some quick facts and my point of view.
1. If you live in a Condo and have nosy neighbors, I strongly recommend you do NOT purchase a Condor.
2. Whatever you will hit with the Condor will make a LOT more noise than the muzzle report itself (if your Condor is shrouded). The Condor’s hammer also strikes the valve hard so there is some “noise” there..
3. You will spend more than $700 because you need to get a very good and effective shroud, and that is the Airhog or the Talon Tunes shroud, which range from $180 to $240. Without a shroud, it will sound very close to rimfire.
4. 80+shots is not a reality with the Condor, especially at that velocity unless you spend good $ on a regulator and valve combo, and again your $700 budget goes out the window. You might be able to get close to 60 shots but not with consistent 900-950fps velocities unless you have a custom regulated system. An expensive European (Daystate, Theoben, and maybe FX) airgun will give you 50-60 “semi-regulated” shots and closer to the velocities you are looking at (maybe a little less) without modifications, or a Condor with regulator modifications, but 80 shots will not be possible at 900fps or faster, 850 might be more realistic.
5. 0.5″ CTC groups at 50yds is not an issue, but will be hard to do with a 3x9x32 scope, especially the 50-100yd range shooting. You will need a better scope, at least 16x magnification with very clear optics to be consistently accurate beyond 60dys..
6. No dissasembly required to adjust the power with the Power Wheel, but it’s not good practice to go from 28fpe to 44+fpe on the fly. Even if you go back to the same setting on the PW for the higher FPE, the gun may not shoot exactly at the same power, depending how much air is in the tank and how many shots you took at 28fpe. My Condors will not shoot 28fpe. It is too low for a Condor. The lowest I have been able to go down to is about 33-34fpe with 16gr pellets but there was only like 1500psi in the tank. You cannot use very light pellets to achieve lower power either (with a decent fill), because they will go supersonic, and your shroud will not be effective. Shrouds are only effective at sub-sonic speeds.
To conclude (because I gotta go), you are looking for too much, with too little $ and a Condo enviroment is not ideal to shoot the powerful Condor IMO.
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get a condor with a talon tank if you ever decide to get an AF rifle…