Just a Tip
After reading an earlier post referencing a concern for the “hygiene”, of the internals of the regulator, and some new found knowledge obtained from Robert Lanes YouTube channel (this is a “must read” by this regulator guru), I decided to look at the guts of the regulator. The clip, pertinent to this post is on lubrication (specific to Bellville washer stack @ 5:30).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpKIbfLFG0U
While in the process of tuning, I was compelled to open the regulator up and look inside. My 50 shot string was averaging a 21-32 ES and seemed off, especially after the break in period and tune. I suspected that the hygiene, of the regulator guts, was constipating the function. After opening it up, I noted that the block, washer stack and rotor were somewhat over greased and quite filthy. At the peril of having to let the stack settle again, I cleaned and LIGHTLY lubed the assembly and viola…my ES was cut in half, from the original, to 9-14 fps for 50 shots. Definitely worth the time to let the regulator settle again. After some tweeking, my usable shot count is at 60 with this same ES. My tip…maybe open up and clean out the regulator even before the break in process or if your ES seems to increase unacceptably.
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I wanted to post an update since I have had a chance to re-chrono my gun since cleaning the regulator. My gun is now back to normal and more consistent than ever. My average FPS is 922 with a SD of 3fps. Last year my gun chronod at an average of 915fps with a SD of 6fps.
This problem obviously has nothing to do with poor air quality, these regulators were over oiled from the factory. Hopefully this problem has been addressed and corrected.
I have never seen it so dirty.
Do you use dry air?
Do not forget to change the o-rings.
Regards, Robert.
Sorry for the late response…I join the forum, when I can, between hunts/fishing/work and just noticed my reply did not post. I shouldn’t try to multi-task while using this technology. 😕
I have used certified air from my dive shop, up until the last two fills. The booster went down so the recent fills were from my paintball range to get the 4500 psi fill on the Great White tank. I don’t suspect “bad air” as the instigator for this condition. I have run 6 tanks through this gun from 4200 to 2600 fps average, FYI.
Please let us know your results. With enough input, by you and others, this may prove to be a necessary procedure, to realize the full potential of the newer Matadors. I’m curious to find out if this was just an isolated incident, for my gun. Another thought…I wonder if this may extend the “break in” term, while the grease is finding it’s static position in the washer stack??? I guess we would never know unless someone cleaned this up, upon receipt of the gun and compared it to the factory assembly, for a few tins.
Granted it looks nasty, but perhaps it has a purpose unknown to us. I wonder if Ed lubes them with this heavy duty stuff because most shooters will never open their regulators up to clean and maintain them?
Just a thought.
Hoot:
Hey Hoot…good observation. It really didn’t feel dirty but did seem over greased. I note that in Ed’s assembly videos, he uses something that looks a bit like axle grease. Thanks Romeo for the great pictures. They seem to emulate my findings exactly. For those who haven’t seen Robert Lane’s clip on lubrication, I will summarize, in a condensed version.
The Bellville washer stack is inhibited, in it’s function, by over greasing. The physics, function and consistency is jeopardized by too much grease between the washers, when moving through the cycle, during a shot. My best analogy is the difference between trying to squeeze air out of an untied balloon and that of squeezing grease out of the same balloon. With each shot, the grease effects the compression of the washers differentially, as the grease, in essence, is non-compressible and viscous. Air on the other hand moves through the minute cavities more freely resulting in a more consistent function. Makes sense from my perspective and even though almost imperceptible, it is the imperceptible we are dealing with, when trying to shave 5…10…15 fps off our ES @ 900 fps. My results clearly substantiate this thinking, per comparison of several shot strings prior to cleaning to those post cleaning. Here is an average string before and my first shot string after, with no other variables @ play, other than an adjustment of the reg screw by 1/16th turn and taking several “settling” shots prior to recording the second string, off the same 200 bar fill.
Before cleaning:
Post cleaning:
just a bit of silicone grease on orings and light coating of Ballistol on the washers. Still running original orings in both rifles and ES is still around 9fps with SD of 2.33 on both Eds.
Well over 100k pellets on 22 and close to 40k on 25.
Hi Hoot,
It might be the grease, Ed could have changed the brand.
I have seen dirty reg’s before and the cause was the wear down of the O-rings.
But they have never been like this.
Filling the gun with not dried air could cause some corrotion,
but I doubt the result will be this black.
I use transparant grease, it shows the wear down.
I think even an russian tank or truck will not go beyond the russian borders with this kind of grease.
Regards, Robert.
I have never seen it so dirty.
Do you use dry air?
Do not forget to change the o-rings.
Regards, Robert.
Robert…is it really dirty? Was it “gritty” to the touch? Or, might that be the Eastern European “grease” they used to lube tanks and trucks with? It seems to have the looks and viscosity of a heavy dark industrial grease.
Granted it looks nasty, but perhaps it has a purpose unknown to us. I wonder if Ed lubes them with this heavy duty stuff because most shooters will never open their regulators up to clean and maintain them?
Just a thought.
Hoot:
Thanks for posting this info. I pulled mine apart this weekend. My regulator was also full of excess oil and grease. It looks like someone got a little carried away with the oil when assembling these regulators. I haven’t had a chance to re-chrono my gun since cleaning the regulator but it looks like this should take take of my shot FPS inconsistency problems I was having.e
Here it is all cleaned up
Hi HJ,
I have never seen it so dirty.
Do you use dry air?
Do not forget to change the o-rings.
Regards, Robert.
Most women who can flaunt it might wear a thong. 😉 Me? I prefer a Speed-O. Well, I did. I tried one on, and haven’t seen it since! :rofl:
darryl
Thanks again guys…I’ll check your link out Darryl. No such thing as too much information. Strietwise guy, my thinking was the same and since Tony R. was kind enough to sport me a shit load of o rings, just for asking, I did replace both. Like putting in a clutch, without replacing the pressure plate, to my way of thinking.
Just a side note…I heard that Hoot has resorted to wearing a thong…this guys ingenuity never ceases to amaze me. :bow: More than one way to skin a cat, eh.
While you have the stack assembly apart it is probably a good idea to replace those two O-rings. Those two are the most likely to show signs of ware. If you are like me I tend to only service the reg about once a year and putting fresh O-rings in will minimize the need for extra visits to the reg.
just a warning about using silicone; it can cause corrosion on some metal parts where there’s metal to metal contact. I once owned an Logun S16,and it carried that warning. But it’s always good to learn as much as possible, so to Google I went and searched “is silicone good for aluminum”, and got this hit among others: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/03/airgun-lubes-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ I understand where Ed’s caution comes from, and the article helps me a bit further along. This is a great thread ( Hoot:’s panties aside!) .
thanks guys!
darryl
My bad. What I meant is, a high tension environment…good catch. Given Ed’s instructions, I would consider this assembly a non-moving part, as there is virtually an imperceptible amount of travel. Silicone IMHO.
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This problem obviously has nothing to do with poor air quality, these regulators were over oiled from the factory. Hopefully this problem has been addressed and corrected.
Good job. Did you happen to note your extreme spread? I’m suspecting it was in the 9-14 fps range after your cleanup
Steve