Knife (and other experts) find me a scope
Mike,
Here’s the gun:
That’s a Barnes Woodsman .62/.32. With the current scope and .32 insert, it’s a half MOA gun at 100 yards.
So why change the scope? Good question, makes no sense at first blush. The fact is, I can shoot the gun with both .62 slugs and .32 slugs over a far greater range than I ever anticipated. The current scope is fine but it has a simple duplex reticle that makes it hard to guestimate holdover for various ranges. I can dial the thing in dead on at 100 but then everything closer is a estimate. I can dial it in with the .62 slugs at 50 but then everything out to 130 is a guess….
I’d like to have a scope with either mildots or some sort of marked reticle that gives me multiple aim points I can assign ranges to. That way, I can set the gun up to be dead on at say 50 yards with slugs but have a repeatable and easy to remember when it counts, reference point when the damn deer shows up at 90 yards!
I’m not in any rush and may not make any change this season. But, I’d like to start watching the sales and auctions and know what to get when “it” is available at a good price!
Because this is a custom gun and the scope mount is a custom piece, there are some limitations as to what I can hang on the gun. The mount was made to move the scope forward over the loading port and is made for a 1″ tube. I don’t plan on changing this mount. You can see (hopefully) that the scope can’t have a huge protrusion under the turrets, there’s about a 1/4″ clearance there…so a forward/bell focus design is fine. Besides the physical constraints, the scope needs to have excellent optics and solid, repeatable adjustments. Oh, it can’t cost as much as a S&B either! Find the one I want with a gloss black finish and there’s a donut in it for you!
Here’s some pics of the scope and mount to give a visual on what I’m yapping about…
Got a spare Zeiss to fit??!! 😆
All Replies
Which model of scooe did you get-Power? Is it crisp at full power/
How is it at dusk and dawn?
Mike
I have the sidewinder 6-24X56. It is very crisp on full power. Well I went to a friends place After work 2 weeks ago, to do a little shooting. (he works at a synagogue as a maintenance man) The only available light was from the light poles in the parking lot. I was able to read the numbers on a 10 meter target at 30 yards. The light poles were 20 yards from where we were shooting.
Hey Mike,
You 141 guys lay down much ordnance? I mean without parachutes attached? 😆 😆 😆
When I was flying CSAR, the SEALs were always worried that we’d be dead weight if we ever got shot down around an LZ. So they made sure our M4s and sidearms were working well and sighted in. The team ordy also made sure the M60s, M240s, GAU 17s and GAU 16s we mounted in the cargo doors worked the way they were supposed to!
Every CSAR pilot and crewman in my squadron had an M4 assigned to him that he had been to the range with and had help getting sighted in and set to what worked for him. Ours were all open sights but we weren’t snipers. The Army reserve base South of Jacksonville has a nice range with reactive torso targets from 50 to 300 yards. An open sight M4 works just fine out to 300 and even on a windy day the 300 yard target would drop but I might need to aim about a foot off the shoulder.
What was this thread about again? 🙄
I would like to check out their Binos.
Which model of scooe did you get-Power? Is it crisp at full power/
How is it at dusk and dawn?
Mike
Hawke Sidewinder http://hawkeoptics.com/us/riflescopes/sidewinder/index.php
I love mine
Well it’s like this, After we make a pass to lay some ordinance on the bad guys to bail you ground pounders out, we are usually end up forward of your positions. Now if the bad guys shoot us down, we had better know how to shoot. And since all we have is a pistol, we had better be damed good with it. After all, you guy’s are on the other side of the enemy line. So we are usually on our own for some time! 😯 😉
Besides, sometimes you tough macho jump guys really piss us off when you get all green and shit and then commence to puke’n all over our damed Aircraft! Sometimes a guy just needs a shoot’n! 😉
Ex-Loadmaster 141 Star Lifter 437 MAS-MAW
Mike
Nice post knife and you have done your homework 🙂 the reason for the fixed magnification are in this article. The V-7 is on some of the sniper rifles being used in an urban environment and you’re right it’s a hunting scope.
I was surprised to see how many good shooters there were in the AF knife and at my first competition I remember asking myself now why do they need guns lol but it was a pistol competition and I asked one of the airmen why and he said well we do have bases that need guarded lol and the officers have a sidearm but he was real nice about it and I was 18 so he took mercy on me.
Not exactly. Most ARMY scopes are fixed 10 power. So that is where their ret’s. are etched to mill.
Some of the special forces types=Different branches) have gone to variable power scopes. Different scopes are set to mil a different settings. For instance, the Zeiss 4.5×14 mil’s at 10x. The Zeiss 6×26 Mils’ at 12x. It’s just the way it is set up from the factory. The 10x is the best known because the Leupold’s used by the US Army had be a 10x scope for years. You have to remember, the Mil system is a European system. And Most European special units use Variable Scopes. So 10 Mil. isn’t necessarily the norm,. Just here.
The VAX-7 isn’t a Sniper scope. It may well have been used by some. But the Mar4 II and IV are are Leupold current sniper scopes. The Varix-7 is a hunting scope. It can be ordered with turrets and Mil dot from the custom shop. But that isn’t a catalog item. Military or Civilian.
About the S&B Scopes. It is the Marine Corp. That has gone to the S&B. Not the US Army. Although they are looking at them. They have replaced the US Optics with them. Night Force is also being used by SF teams.
In Europe, the S&B is a staple. The top of the line Scopes over there is the Hensholt. A division of Zeiss.
Lama, The Vari-xIII glass is good. The Vari-x3 is better. Believe it or not, even though the III and 3 read the same, they are not the same scope. Why they would use such a confusing description I will never understand. With a written order, it is easy to distinguish. With a spoken order, it is very easy to get the wrong glass.
The Vari-x-7 has much better glass. They had to upgrade to be able to compete at all with the European offerings. Even though they claimed in their advertisements to be equal, they knew full well they weren’t even in the same universe. They put down the high dollar European Glass and cost for years. Calming to be just as good, and much cheaper. Now that they have “Finally” stepped up, they are prices just as high. Higher in most cases! And Still not equal. Much less superior as they claim.
They’re Real Tactical Scopes, the Mark-4 for instance still used the old Vari-x-III glass. No where near as good as the competition. The Night Force is better and still it is of much lesser quality glass and coatings. It is easy to see the difference in a side by side comparison.
They all look good when you look through them by themselves. . It is only when you have the others there to look through immediately, that the huge difference really reveal themselves. 😉 By the way, the UASF won the competition a few times, and not much of any one has ever heard of their Special Forces Units. The Blue Horse.!
Mike
Push him towards NBC and I took my son to all the branches to make sure he didn’t get pushed around or intimidated and make the wrong move or get a bum deal.
My boy was days away from going to the MEPS center when he got hired by edison working nuclear plant outages all over the country which was his goal anyway.
If he goes NBC he can go work at a nuke plant
Freddy,
Feel free to abuse the Marines (for now), I’m Navy retired. I do work with Marines everyday and I’m responsible for testing Marine helicopters but Hell, I give them abuse daily, so you might as well get your digs in too! I said (for now) as my oldest son is about to enlist in the Marines. He’s taken the tests (ASVAB/AQFT) and the recruiter is all giddy (as giddy as Marine Sergeants trying to reach quota get) because he qualifies for every job in the Corps. I’m concerned that he’s going to pick Infantry just because that’s the best way to become a Recon Marine and stay Recon or go elsewhere in special forces. He has the skills to go NBC specialist and have a much higher salary point after serving even if he doesn’t get his degree as he plans but… I’m kinda torn between being proud and worried and trying to plan his life. He’s such a good kid, if I don’t kill him before he graduates, he’s going to make a damn fine American. Oh, he’s a great shot so he has a leg up on the recruits just learning about guns!
LOL! you know it jus pisses some of the marines off that the army keeps winning at Benning lol I just had to get that dig in 🙂
We didn’t shoot out of helicopters in 1987 that was added after I went through but I take my hat off to anyone that makes a hit at any distance from a moving helicopter.
I have to get some enjoyment out of the army holding the title because you never know when it’s going to be taken.
It sounds like you had a lot more excitement while in the service that I did and thanks for serving by the way.
Jerry I cross-trained with marines at MPI school and at Ft.BH indiana while on duty we took a fingerprint class together with some marine MPIs and we all got along really well unlike people think.
I was asked by my drill sgt and my CO to pursue ranger school due to destroying the PT test and maxing all of the other qualifications and I should have gone for it but didn’t like the 8 year commitment time and I ended up doing 6 anyway lol.
My wife said I should quit living in the past and when I got with her I was 5’10” 245lbs with 7% body fat and could and did do so many things and when I got hurt I went down to 168lbs and I’ve gained weight back now that the pain is being managed so I live in the past now 🙂
I never used to tell anyone about anything I did or what I achieved until I became disabled and I didn’t have the need to brag is the only word that comes to mind. Only my closest friends knew any of my background because I considered it in bad taste to brag about ones accomplishments but I find myself living in the past more and more these days 🙁
I have a brother that is a helicopter pilot and all I can say about you guys is you’re nuts and I got to ride with a vietnam veteran chopper pilot when we were doing insertions and I’d rather walk lol not really but he scared the shit out of me.
Brother
Give me an A
Give me an R …….LOL
Go Army 🙂
OK freddy, enough with the Army cheerleading because of the comp at Ft. Benning! I just got a nice post deployment debrief the other day with results of Marine Snipers shooting out of helicopters. Oh, I got the debrief on the SEAL team kills of the little fuckers holding the captain of the Mersk hostage on the bouncing lifeboat last Summer. And let’s not forget the Canadian who got a 2000 yard kill…
I used to fly combat search and rescue, I spent a lot of time dropping SEALs into the water and letting them jump out at altitude or step out onto peaks at 8000′ in the Winter (theese guys are tough! But also folks you want to hang with (nothing to prove)). One of the drills we used to do down in the Bahamas in between practicing opposed take downs of hostile boats was target practice from the sniper/cover helo. You don’t want to ever be the subject of a kill order when these guys are around! I’d hover 500 yards off the surf line at anywhere from 50 to 300 feet and they would shoot torsos and heads on the beach on command. At night. Moonless night. Moonless, overcast nights so dark that only 6 of us in the squadron were qualified to even fly on goggles. The guys with the dedicated sniper rifles would just take head shots and I can’t recall an actual miss, just some disappointment from off center hits. The spotters and snipers using M4s would actually triple tap from that range and put two in the chest and one in the head. Thank God I’m such a smooth pilot! 😆 😆 😆 Really, these guys put me in awe. I’m having a tough time seeing a horizon so I can maintain a stable platform and they are using no better technology to overcome the vibration of a helo hovering out of the wind (it makes a big difference) and compensate for the movement I can’t avoid and hitting head shots at 500+ yards on command. That’s some serious skill. I didn’t see that event at Ft. Benning but I can tell you I’ve flown that practice mission at least a dozen times.
That is correct grit and you’re best off using the turrets with fixed mag above 10x. The problem is the same as I run into on anything above 18x on my nikko the target takes up the whole FOV and I’m talking about air rifles here not powder because you would have no problem with a fixed 20x mag scope at 1000 meters 🙂 (depending on zero) lol forgot that disclaimer.
I think more people would have a better experience shooting if they understood how to mil out distance by using the mildots it’s very effective.
I guess one could say that the army marksmanship team has the home field advantage lol it’s held at Benning year in and year out. In football home field is worth 3 points to the bookies 🙂
On edit: I have been using my turrets for everything lately and I like it much better than trying to sync magnification and distance to get on an even dot (provided my range is correct)
This is nice reading
http://www.mil-dot.com/Mil_Dot_Information.htm
I know you’ll like this one
Yeah, I noticed the Army’s been kickin Ass in that competition. The only concern I would have is the 16 or 20 time fixed mag and being able to Mil out the distance. I hear all the time that you can only use mils for range estimation on 10x magnification. What say you?
Tell your friend (marine sniper) I said semper fi and I cross-trained with a few marines great guys remember major payne “my business is killin and business is good” he he he he.
I like that scope and it looks like you could drop it without even so much as scratching it. I love a fixed mag scope it’s way more consistent and way more reliable.
I might make that my next scope and I have to stop drinking champagne on a wine budget lol.
Don’t forget that the army has won the sniper competition 3 years running now at Benning 🙂 not to rub it in or anything 🙂 I hope that dig doesn’t get a war going because the actual branches get along just like brothers but I’ve read some all out wars on the subject in various forums lol.
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You 141 guys lay down much ordnance? I mean without parachutes attached? 😆 😆 😆
When I was flying CSAR, the SEALs were always worried that we’d be dead weight if we ever got shot down around an LZ. So they made sure our M4s and sidearms were working well and sighted in. The team ordy also made sure the M60s, M240s, GAU 17s and GAU 16s we mounted in the cargo doors worked the way they were supposed to!
Every CSAR pilot and crewman in my squadron had an M4 assigned to him that he had been to the range with and had help getting sighted in and set to what worked for him. Ours were all open sights but we weren’t snipers. The Army reserve base South of Jacksonville has a nice range with reactive torso targets from 50 to 300 yards. An open sight M4 works just fine out to 300 and even on a windy day the 300 yard target would drop but I might need to aim about a foot off the shoulder.
What was this thread about again? 🙄
Oh Hell no! Just talking about AF in general. We were known to fire a round or two out the back door/ramp for shits and grins. 😆 Things were a little looser over there in the early 70’s. (The AF was nice enough to issue us 2″ bbl. model 15 S&W 38’s) 😆
We transported a nuke or two from time to time. But we never could get the Brass to see the humor in letting us push one out the back door. It would have been a blast. 😆 😆 😆 Humm, change the Ho Chi Ming trail into the Ho Chi Ming “VALLEY” Kinda has a nice ring to it. 😈
I had a Colt Python in the rig under my flight suit though. 😉