Lack of hst adjustment on r3m standard? HELP!! please
Ok, I was shooting at 930ish with jsb after 500 shots and saw that other guy adjusted his hst down and got to 880ish. So, I turned mine down 1/4 turn and got 899-906. So, I went another 1/2 turn for I total of 3/4 turn out. I noticed that the set screw went a lot further in before it tightened up but it just didn’t dawn on me that was going to be trouble. I went to cock the gun and the adjusted and spring flew away. Yep, that was all the threads that was left. 3/4 turns or so. I located the spring and adjuster, the last thread shows some damage and you can see where the factory righted the set screw at the last two threads. So, is this normal to not have any real adjustment or did I get the wrong spring or adjuster or maybe something else in the linkage is wrong? What do I need to check now? Even once I drop reg pressure, I’m still going to need more adjustment than this, right?
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Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
Hi Wanta,
I got myselfe a bolt and nut:
Drilled a hole in it:
and then made a hexscrew in it:
It is steel, no alu.
it won’t damage quickly from the locking screw.
Just an idea! š
Regards, Robert.
Update::
I took a tiny bit off the adjuster and filed each end of the spring straight. It looks like they we trying to get the ends straight with a grinders or something but they didn’t finish the job. I tested it and was at 868 with the adjuster in enough of rather lock screw to engage properly. I turned in in little and got up to 875. Good enough until I can readjust the regulator.
Yes, yes, yes!! This is vindication!! I’m guessing this is an issue and many more have the problem that don’t know it. I’m not comfortable with less than two threads of aluminum holding the hst in place.
I will be making a new hammer spring housing with additional thread length. Given the amount of tension on the .25 hammer spring I’m not comfortable with only about 4mm of thread engagement. A longer HST will also allow dialing of the power down to ~750fps for “inside the barn” pest control.
As another piece of data, the HST on my new .25 R3M threads in only barely past the setscrew. When I adjusted the regulator down and went to back out the HST slightly so I could creep up on the HST setting that reached maximum regulated velocity it launched itself out of the hammer housing.
I will be making a new hammer spring housing with additional thread length. Given the amount of tension on the .25 hammer spring I’m not comfortable with only about 4mm of thread engagement. A longer HST will also allow dialing of the power down to ~750fps for “inside the barn” pest control.
Yes, I work at one of the three auto plants in Alabama. I can’t say which one cause the Japanese would be very upset;). I looked it over and yet, its counter sunk and there isn’t any real room to change it. It was upside down, and I was crawling around on my knees looking for lost part when I put it back together so I guess I wasn’t looking at it right.
As far as the Orings go, I’d rather replace them the first time. Don’t get me wrong, if it ws life or death and I had to put it back together with old Orings, sure, I’d do it. Better safe than sorry. Is it just one Oring for the reg and one for the valve?
Wanta: Do you work in an auto manufacturing plant in Alabama? I saw your Birmingham address and I think that there are 1 or more auto plants there.
I understand about the ājust in timeā parts bullshit that the US factories use now! I worked at the Mitsubishi plant in Bloomington Il for 8 years before I got laid off.
That was a real rat race and: they wouldnāt allow me to shoot the rats!
At the Mitsu plant, they did the ājust in timeā bull shit. They had semis backing up to the 75-100 docks and fork trucks would be continuously unloading the semis and putting the synchronized pallets of parts in line for installation.
It usually worked very well for them until, we got big snows or other extreme weather and the parts ran out. I do remember a couple of occasions where the plant had to rent 747 cargo planes to fly instrument panels in from somewhere outside of Minneapolis MN, to us in Bloomington, Il.
There were a lot of other times that the plant had to rent the 747s to get parts in also.
If the shipping company got the sequence of parts off, there could be big problems!
When a robot picks up a SUV windshield and tries to install it in a compact car; the results are fun to watch! Shattered glass goes everywhere, the line stops and the big shots quickly show up and go crazy! At least Ā½ of the big shots were on loan from Japan; they usually spoke very good English until: a big fuck up happened, during a big fuck up they would return to the Japanese language and go absolutely bug shit crazy! Their antics were very fun to watch!
Before WW2, a US guy came up with the ājust in timeā manufacturing process and nobody in the US wanted to have anything to do with him/it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
Deming has come back to haunt us now!
OK: back to the subject. Unless you are really clumsy, you shouldnāt need any O rings to remove, adjust and replace the regulator. Just lube the O rings up with silicon grease and be sure not to nick the O rings while you are sliding the reg assembly back into the air tube.
If you have any questions on the reg adjustment, email me at: hdtb3@msn.com send me your phone number and we can talk.
WTF; just send me your phone number anyhow: it is always good to talk to an Edgun brother!
I still want to see the pics of the HST screw that you have.
I like to see pics of Edgun parts!
HOOT likes to see pics of guys parts!
I think you will find that HST screw is counter sunk to the near maximum extent and the spring is running up inside it ..
Not so much local weather. “Just in time logistics” means that there is never more than 2hours worth of parts on hand. I understand the reasoning behind it (you don’t end up with months worth of parts when a recall happens or a change in market conditions which causes you to need to modify the production schedule” however, I’d love to meet the f@ucking moron that invented it. A three car pile up in nowhere Wa, and 2000 people in al are standing around waiting for parts. Massive weather event and you might as well shut down for a week cause something ain’t going to make it through. 6000 pieces coming from 5999 different factory’s across the globe . Plus, when there are delays, the parts come straight off the truck and on line. So there are cold, real cold. Guess what happens to very cold automotive parts, they don’t bend like they should, they break. Everything these days is made to be “manipulate” during installation. Nothing gets lined up and screwed in place with bolts. It’s all clips and tension retention. Push, hit, bend.
Back to edguns. I gots me sum driller bits and I’m pulling her back apart later tonight. Well see. If its true and there is little to no countersink, how far should I take it? 1/4″ or is that likely too much? I don’t have the luxury of having a Chrony set up inside that i could use to test as i dril. Even if I did, I’ve got sleeping kids and that breach oring leak is kind of loud. Hopefully my new orings will be here tomorrow cause I’m getting tired of my eyelid being lifted from my eyeball everytime I pull the trigger. I was playing with the wind at about 90 yards today but I couldn’t keep my eye opens enough to see where I was hitting when missed so I just gave up and started on the tuning.
Are the valve body Orings the same size as the regulator? I am thinking about trying the reg adjustment if I can get a few more of the 25mm orings. There were two with the gun ,so I just need one more? Or two,? I’m going to try to watch a video on the reg tonight.
quote=”oldgoat”]Wanta: You think you are gonna have some bad weather? HA! It is currently 10 degrees here with a real feel of -12 with 20 mph gusts. We just got 7″ of snow with more on the way. Blizzard warning until Monday night. Tomorrows high is supposed to be -9 with a real feel of-39!
I just had one hell of a time trying to get to my local bar. I hope that I don’t get stranded there overnight! š :8:
Post some pics of the inside and outside of your HST screw, I would like to see it. The longer HST screw made from a 10 mm bolt is not hard to make. I have made a couple on a lathe but, one could be made with a hand drill and a vise.[/quote]
Mine was shooting 945fps shooting kings, so I lowered my reg pressure by 20B, went down to 880-885fps the speed I wanted without touching the HST adjuster. the best way to get more shots and consistence is set the reg pressure lowest as possible to maintain your preferred speed, that’s when the HST is adjusted to the highest speed to fully open the valve stem, this way your not regulating the regulated air. your adjusting your speed by how much you open the valve stem in the way of the hammer spring, I use the reg pressure to maintain my speed, with the valve stem fully open in relation to the HST. what that mean is when the HST can not longer raise the speed then you back out on the HST less then 1/4 turn CCW. the bad part of this adjustment is you cant raise the speed only if you raise the reg pressure. I only set it this way when I find the sweet spot that give me the most accurate groups.
Ernest
Wanta: You think you are gonna have some bad weather? HA! It is currently 10 degrees here with a real feel of -12 with 20 mph gusts. We just got 7″ of snow with more on the way. Blizzard warning until Monday night. Tomorrows high is supposed to be -9 with a real feel of-39!
I just had one hell of a time trying to get to my local bar. I hope that I don’t get stranded there overnight! š :8:
Post some pics of the inside and outside of your HST screw, I would like to see it. The longer HST screw made from a 10 mm bolt is not hard to make. I have made a couple on a lathe but, one could be made with a hand drill and a vise.
Not afraid of the reg adjustment. Just the orings. I dnt know exactly what Orings I need other than the two 25mm that came with the gun. I don’t have the spaire cash for one of the $30 kits floating around here. My thought was that if I don’t have enough adjustment to drop the fps now, isn’t it going to be worse once I drop reg pressure? I assuming its going to be a little easier to open the valve once pressure is reduced. Then I’m going to need even more adjustment, right? If its just a matter of dropping regret pressure and then leaving the hst where it is, then I can live with it until I can buy or make a diffrent adjuster. Got any idea how much they cost?
As far as the adjuster goes unless the others are counter sunk, its not going to make a diffrence is it? That was my first thought. I don’t have it in front of me right snow, but the one I have doesn’t appear to be counter sunk at all. The end of the threads is about where the adjuster starts preloading the spring. I think I will try drilling some relief into my adjuster for now. Between the xmass shut down and the impending doom of this ice storm, I can’t be spending right now. I’ve also got a breach Oring I can’t get sealed right now. Only had one new one and it was questionable so I’m not freaked out out it yet. Now, if the new ones thwt should be here tomorrow don’t fix it, I will b freaked out. Cause everything looks clean and proper.
Thanks for the information and recomendations
Wanta, I donāt think that Ed uses a different length or strength hammer spring in his different caliber Matadors.
Ed did use different length HST screws in different caliber guns. I am assuming that he still does on the new R3Ms. You might have gotten a shorter than needed HST screw.
You have some options.
You could contact Tony and ask him if you somehow got the wrong HST screw.
You could cut a coil off of the hammer spring. Not my first choice!
You could measure the depth of the spring seat in the HST screw and determine if you have enough aluminum left to drill out another 1/16ā in the depth. If you have the extra depth in the HST screw, I would try this first. Just remove a little at a time until you get enough depth for the HST to screw into the hammer block far enough for the lock screw to engage the HST screw. You just need to be sure to leave enough aluminum in the spring seat area to withstand the spring pressure when the gun is cocked.
You could buy a new HST adjusting screw from one of the guys selling them here.
You could take your HST screw to a machine shop and have one made that has more threads.
You could make you one HST screw from a 10 MM X 1.0 mm pitch bolt.
If you want to take your gun from the 930s to around 885 fps, you will probably have to adjust the regulator and HST both. Just turning the HST out enough to get the gun in the 885s, without adjusting the regulator, will only give you a bell curve shot string or a shot string that increases as the pressure in the air tube drops.
There have been a lot of guys here that have tried dropping the speeds 45 fps by just using the HST. IIRC, everybody that tried ended up adjusting the reg also.
Ernest is selling a degas and regulator removal tool. You might want to buy one and ask him if he has any longer HST screws available.
http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28483
I know: you donāt want to pull the regulator out of the gun and adjust it! A lot of people have been very leery of doing the adjustment! Once they do it, they find out how easy it is to do and usually end up adjusting the gun a couple of more times just to get the gun shooting exactly where they want it to.
I’ve taken basic numbers at 220bar and 120 bar but there hasn’t been much light or time to try a full string. I didn’t remember exactly what I was at at 120 bar but it want below the 928 to 932 I was getting everywhere else. It just seams like I’ve got a 30 cal spring or something cause everyone else has been able to tune it down. I got it shoting again at 921 with the adjuster back where it was before I messed with it. I’ve got my kids today so I’m not able to work on it full time. Just I between playing ref or feeding or whatever. I’ve got to get to paintball before they close cause my tank is just about tapped out and they close in a few hours unless the weather starts to suck. Then they close up whenever they want.
If you lower your regulator pressure there will be less pressure against the valve. So i would think that it would take less spring tension to open the valve. Maybe ED or The OLDGOAT or someone with more knowledge will chime in. Do u know what your reg pressure is at? Have you shot a Full string and documented it?
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Ya, no way I can pull that off with my cheap dril bits, by hand. I’d also have trouble Turing down the head of the bolt without a lathe. But hey, I’ll but the bolt if you want to make me one š”