Legality of Moderators
This may have already been covered in the forum. BUT I read an interesting article here: http://www.airgunhome.com/pages/silencers.html
I am interpreting this to mean we should only use materials in our moderators that cannot survive a firearm blast. i.e. it will disintegrate if we use gun powder.
To start a friendly debate and to get other pov I ask the question
For US Law: should a baffle system avoid an “all metal” construction?
The United States does not, contrary to popular belief, ”ban” silencers/suppressors. A person cannot purchase, construct or use one without a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms permit. Some states, however, do ban the sale and use of suppressors- even if a permit for one has been issued to an individual by the BATF (California is an example of this)- so check your local laws before assuming if you obtain a permit you’re ”legal.”
Also note: ANY device that could potentially be used to reduce the muzzle report of what is classified as a ”firearm” requires a BATF permit, where allowed. This means that just because you may construct your own suppressor and attach it to an airgun (not a firearm) you shouldn’t be comfortable in assuming you are in compliance with the law. If the BATF can construe that it may be removed (even if by cutting/slicing or otherwise damaging or destroying the airgun to which it is attached) and then used on a regular firearm- it would be illegal. Please note, the BATF has construed the reading of the regulations this way more than a few times.
A specifically relevant section of the U.S. National Firearms Act (NFA), 1968 that has been clarified by the BATF:
(M30) Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?
The terms ”firearm silencer” and ”firearm muffler” mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA classified weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax.
If I have any further questions as to the classification of a paintball or airgun silencer, who should I contact?
Please send a written request to ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch.
All Replies
before i made mine i made frends with an ATF agent and more than a few local law enforcement officers..(no names will be mentioned) but it is true that it only has to be able to be “fitted” to the ATF test rig and work just once..it can even come appart on that shot as long as it lowered the report it suppressed the noise then it IS a supressor…but what i was told is that as long as you are smart and dont do ANY thing stupid more likly than not it will just be taken and youll get a slap on the wrist….mine NEVER leaves the house its just to keep the neighbors happy and happy neighbors means happy shooting
man Mam looks like you got into some high voltage with your Avatar cool have I missed some of your targets or is the cold keeping you indoors!
Does this mean all external moderators for PCP become a weapon under the classification?
What I said is accurate. I dont make the laws…
It seems the good news is that, if you are found in possesion of a
silencer on an airgun, you will probably only have it confiscated BUT,
if you are a huge azz and make a big stink about it when confronted, that
may be the difference between a citation and some jail time….. The ATF
can do anything they want and you have to prove you are innocent…
Actually there’s a good thread on this here: http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12149
It appears that it doesn’t matter what the moderator is made of. Instead its important to show that it cannot be removed and put on a firearm. In the case of a Talon SS its tube is part of the gun. BUT using a hacksaw to remove the tube constitutes an illegal act as you are manufacturing a silencer that can then be mounted on a firearm.
So my question is flawed… as I suspected 🙂
Plus even if that wasnt true a .22lr isnt that much more powerful than a PCP so if its designed to stay together with a PCP it will likely hold up when fired through a .22lr
X2
So a soda bottle and potato would count as a silencer. Although their original purpose is not to silence a gun.
Does this mean all external moderators for PCP become a weapon under the classification?
Tom Gaylord wrote an piece on this here: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/01/silencer-issue.html
Yes we are, and most airgunners know that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has jurisdiction over firearms ONLY. In fact, U.S. Code specifically prohibits any federal, state or local municipality from declaring an airgun to be a firearm. Not only do the federal firearms laws NOT apply to airguns, they CANNOT be applied by law! But that doesn’t get us out of the woods.
However…
IF you have an airgun silencer, and IF it can be removed and installed on a firearm, and IF it then quiets that firearm – that silencer meets the legal definition and is subject to the law. However, in the United States, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty, so it is also necessary to prove intent, as in you intended to use the silencer in your possession on a firearm. Therein lies the problem.
It doesn’t matter what its made of or if its made to disintegrate after 1 shot when used with powder – it only needs to last and work for that one shot with a .22lr for the ATF to deem it a silencer.
Plus even if that wasnt true a .22lr isnt that much more powerful than a PCP so if its designed to stay together with a PCP it will likely hold up when fired through a .22lr
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It all boils down what the jury decides doesn’t it?